some HHs from a 2 table SnG

[jdubs]

playing way out of my bankroll here (i usually play the 5s)..a mistake I know, but something happened today that made me really need $, yet another reason not to play , I know... having said that: anyone want to take a look at a few hands for me let me know what you think? this is two tables (1st time i have played one of these) top 4 pay....


$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,482,928,217
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 12:59 AM


Seat 1: mickmags ($1,095 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AD,AH] ($1,860 in chips)
Seat 3: pockett ($2,710 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($1,255 in chips)
Seat 5: ladylee2 ($1,610 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($2,335 in chips)
Seat 7: dangiz ($1,800 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($3,400 in chips)
Seat 9: defcahn5 ($1,970 in chips)
Seat 10: riverrat xx ($1,965 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
jdubster posts blind ($15), pockett posts blind ($30).

PRE-FLOP
scarp1 folds, ladylee2 folds, x Shades folds, dangiz calls $30, pitbones bets $80, defcahn5 folds, riverrat xx folds, mickmags calls $80, jdubster bets $200, pockett folds, dangiz calls $185, pitbones folds, mickmags folds.

FLOP [board cards QD,3D,5D ]
jdubster bets $300, dangiz calls $300.

TURN [board cards QD,3D,5D,7D ]
jdubster bets $400, dangiz folds.

$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,482,975,255
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 01:33 AM




Seat 1: downtownHB ($1,850 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [KD,KC] ($2,270 in chips)
Seat 3: pockett ($985 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($9,025 in chips)
Seat 5: MO50 ($6,135 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($2,840 in chips)
Seat 7: badbeatRuss ($3,085 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($4,975 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($5,480 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($3,355 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
pockett posts blind ($100), scarp1 posts blind ($200).

PRE-FLOP
MO50 folds, x Shades folds, badbeatRuss calls $200, pitbones folds, Zig979 folds, bashar sweis folds, downtownHB folds, jdubster bets $400, pockett folds, scarp1 calls $200, badbeatRuss calls $200.

FLOP [board cards 7D,10D,9S ]
scarp1 checks, badbeatRuss checks, jdubster bets $1,870 and is all-in, scarp1 folds, badbeatRuss calls $1,870.

TURN [board cards 7D,10D,9S,5C ]


RIVER [board cards 7D,10D,9S,5C,QD ]


SHOWDOWN
jdubster shows [ KD,KC ]
badbeatRuss shows [ QC,JH ]
jdubster wins $5,040.


$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,483,001,725
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 01:55 AM



Seat 1: downtownHB ($750 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AH,KC] ($4,590 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($6,375 in chips)
Seat 5: MO50 ($2,005 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($3,030 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($9,910 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($5,130 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($8,210 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
x Shades posts blind ($150), pitbones posts blind ($300).

PRE-FLOP
Zig979 folds, bashar sweis bets $700, downtownHB folds, jdubster calls $700, scarp1 folds, MO50 folds, x Shades folds, pitbones folds.

FLOP [board cards 4S,AD,9D ]
bashar sweis checks, jdubster bets $2,000, bashar sweis folds.


$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,483,004,122
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 01:57 AM




Seat 1: downtownHB ($750 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AH,KD] ($5,740 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($6,375 in chips)
Seat 5: MO50 ($1,705 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($2,880 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($9,310 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($4,830 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($8,410 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Zig979 posts blind ($150), bashar sweis posts blind ($300).

PRE-FLOP
downtownHB folds, jdubster bets $800, scarp1 folds, MO50 folds, x Shades folds, pitbones folds, Zig979 calls $650, bashar sweis calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 5S,7H,6D ]
Zig979 bets $1,000, bashar sweis folds, jdubster folds.

$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,483,018,822
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 02:09 AM



Seat 1: downtownHB ($700 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [QC,JC] ($3,765 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($2,475 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($10,760 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($12,005 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($10,295 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
bashar sweis posts blind ($300), downtownHB posts blind ($600).

PRE-FLOP
jdubster bets $3,765 and is all-in, scarp1 folds, pitbones folds, Zig979 folds, bashar sweis folds, downtownHB folds.

this one took me out..but I think I had to push here.

$50+$4 (real money), hand #1,483,019,173
Lima Single Table Tournament, 17 Nov 2005 02:09 AM



Seat 1: downtownHB ($100 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AH,QD] ($4,665 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($2,475 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($10,760 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($12,005 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($9,995 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
downtownHB bets $100 and is all-in, jdubster posts blind ($600).

PRE-FLOP
scarp1 folds, pitbones folds, Zig979 calls $600, bashar sweis folds, jdubster bets $4,065 and is all-in, Zig979 calls $4,065.

FLOP [board cards 10C,7S,KH ]


TURN [board cards 10C,7S,KH,4D ]


RIVER [board cards 10C,7S,KH,4D,QC ]


SHOWDOWN
jdubster shows [ AH,QD ]
Zig979 shows [ 7C,7D ]
downtownHB shows [ 8C,6C ]
Zig979 wins $9,130, Zig979 wins $300.

[vqc]

Hand 1 AA. Why not check the turn?
On the flop you bet, and he calls, he says "i dont think you flopped a flush". On the turn if you check, he can check behind saying, i thnk ur trapping me. ON the river, I bet you anything that if you check again he would bet saying, ha, I knew you were full of shit on the flop im going to bet into you becuase I have 2 pair or KK or JJ, and you cant rep that flush anymore.

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Hand 3 AK. Push preflop

Hand 4 pushing with the QJ is hard. I think it was a good push tho.

Hand 5 I push.

[AHiltz]

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Thoughts behind this?

Are you aiming for an easy pot pickup? Do you think you will get a caller? Do you not think you can outplay them on a non A flop?

[vqc]

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Thoughts behind this?

Are you aiming for an easy pot pickup? Do you think you will get a caller? Do you not think you can outplay them on a non A flop?

Well
I dont like the minraise here.
It builds the pot to ~1300 and he will have 1900 behind.

On a Non A flop He is right to just go all in on the flop.
I guess thats not a bad thing by any means. I guess if hes willing to pot build and push any flop thats fine. There really wont be any "outplaying" on an non A high flop becuase his stack will be too shallow compared to the pot.

On the other hand when the A flops almost a quarter of the time, he is going to be in a tough position.
He will have 1900 chips behind (with 200 blinds mind u) and a 1300 chip pot. With that A out there is he going to fold his KK when the blinds or MP leads the A high flop after calling a minraise preflop?

Alot of hte time I think that the MP limper will call his all in with something like 88.

[Staresy]

Well, for what it’s worth, here is my opinion ……

Hand 1 – I don’t mind this. But, as VQ says, I think a check on the turn might give you a chance to extract more chips on the river.

Hand 2 – I wouldn’t min-raise pre-flop, even in that situation. I would fire for 500-600. I know that you are fairly short-stacking, but I disagree that you are in push/fold mode pre-flop.

Hand 3 – I think a bet for 1200-1500 would achieve the same effect here.

Hand 4 – Good lay down. No sense putting anything more in the pot there.

Hand 5 – you probably had just enough to pull this off IMO. Pushing QJo isn’t such a bad thing, but with three big stacks to act behind you and shorty virtually AI, it is risky. Quite how downtown can fold here defies belief, but that’s a different story! My big worry in this scenario is bashar sweis finding a hand. I know you can’t legislate for that, but he has 300 already invested and is looking at 3465 more to win a 4765 pot (~1.4:1), but crucially, to knock two players out at once and land ITM (assuming that downtown calls!).

Hand 6 – I am going to go against the grain here and say that I would not push this. My reason for doing so is the situation in the tournament. You have a shorty AI and the action about to pass to scarp next hand which will put ¼ of his stack in on the BB alone. I think you can pass this up and wait for the bubble to burst. You can always go back into push/fold mode after the button passes. Sure, I understand the principle about playing to win and maximising your premium hands, but I think you should also take into account the state of the tournament, particularly, as you say, the money was quite important to you.

[MAX]

Hand 1. Turn is a Good time to slowplay. You've got the near nutz (I can't give him credit for the srt8 flush or even str8 flush draw). So he has little to no chance of improving to beat you and probably will not put more money in the pot regardless, but checking does give him a chance to bluff.

Hand 2. You can not min raise KK preflop. I think 3bb raise is in order here.

3. I make a smaller bet on the flop (I would consider pushing preflop, but the call is fine). Probably bet out about 1200 - 1400 on the flop and hope he sticks around. If the turn is a non diamond then I push. I think he had pp and was folding the flop regardless.

4. nh

5. Pushing is +EV but I am fine with folding here UTG.

6. Tougher decision than it appears. Betting him out gains you 1000 but at these stack sizes, and your need for a place, I think a more passive line is justifiable, although less EV. I wouldn't regret the push for a second. He's not likely to limp AK so I'm thinking he's got pp or worse A and you are either ahead or flipping the majority of the time.

[vqc]

Hand 1. Turn is a Good time to slowplay. You've got the near nutz (I can't give him credit for the srt8 flush or even str8 flush draw). So he has little to no chance of improving to beat you and probably will not put more money in the pot regardless, but checking does give him a chance to bluff.

Hand 2. You can not min raise KK preflop. I think 3bb raise is in order here.

3. I make a smaller bet on the flop (I would consider pushing preflop, but the call is fine). Probably bet out about 1200 - 1400 on the flop and hope he sticks around. If the turn is a non diamond then I push. I think he had pp and was folding the flop regardless.

4. nh

5. Pushing is +EV but I am fine with folding here UTG.

6. Tougher decision than it appears. Betting him out gains you 1000 but at these stack sizes, and your need for a place, I think a more passive line is justifiable, although less EV. I wouldn't regret the push for a second. He's not likely to limp AK so I'm thinking he's got pp or worse A and you are either ahead or flipping the majority of the time.

Why is 3xBB better than 2x Here?

[Fnord]

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Thoughts behind this?

vqc desn't like putting in money post-flop (sorry, too easy)

[vqc]

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Thoughts behind this?

vqc desn't like putting in money post-flop (sorry, too easy)

Wat do u think about my comments afterwords fnord?

[Fnord]

Ace flops don't concern me when I'm pot-struck with Kings.

[vqc]

Ace flops don't concern me when I'm pot-struck with Kings.

You are definitely stuck in the pot if u raise at all here
So I assume then that you are raising here becuase u want more chips in and ur getting ur chips in on the flop regardless of an ace.
In that case there is not post flop play! =D.

If that is the reason I can understand the play.
I Guess
If your not letting go of KK here at all.
THen you are finding the best way to extract chips.
And in this case you believe that raising and not being afriad of the Ace is the best way to do this. And that losing to the Ace does not happen enough to outweight all the times that you do not lose to the ace here, should you not push preflop.

[jdubs]

Hand 2 with the KK, I push preflop.

Thoughts behind this?

Are you aiming for an easy pot pickup? Do you think you will get a caller? Do you not think you can outplay them on a non A flop?

Well
I dont like the minraise here.
It builds the pot to ~1300 and he will have 1900 behind.

On a Non A flop He is right to just go all in on the flop.
I guess thats not a bad thing by any means. I guess if hes willing to pot build and push any flop thats fine. There really wont be any "outplaying" on an non A high flop becuase his stack will be too shallow compared to the pot.

On the other hand when the A flops almost a quarter of the time, he is going to be in a tough position.
He will have 1900 chips behind (with 200 blinds mind u) and a 1300 chip pot. With that A out there is he going to fold his KK when the blinds or MP leads the A high flop after calling a minraise preflop?

Alot of hte time I think that the MP limper will call his all in with something like 88.

vqc,

I see your point, I guess I was afraid of scaring everyone out, this happens to me with premium hands, dumb , i know, I was tryin to be all sly and slo playing a bit- which is a bad idea here I know.

and your point on checking the turn on hand 1 makes alot of sense- could have extracted more chips probably. thanks for your comments, much appreciated!

[jdubs]

Well, for what it’s worth, here is my opinion ……

Hand 1 – I don’t mind this. But, as VQ says, I think a check on the turn might give you a chance to extract more chips on the river.

Hand 2 – I wouldn’t min-raise pre-flop, even in that situation. I would fire for 500-600. I know that you are fairly short-stacking, but I disagree that you are in push/fold mode pre-flop.

Hand 3 – I think a bet for 1200-1500 would achieve the same effect here.

Hand 4 – Good lay down. No sense putting anything more in the pot there.

Hand 5 – you probably had just enough to pull this off IMO. Pushing QJo isn’t such a bad thing, but with three big stacks to act behind you and shorty virtually AI, it is risky. Quite how downtown can fold here defies belief, but that’s a different story! My big worry in this scenario is bashar sweis finding a hand. I know you can’t legislate for that, but he has 300 already invested and is looking at 3465 more to win a 4765 pot (~1.4:1), but crucially, to knock two players out at once and land ITM (assuming that downtown calls!).

Hand 6 – I am going to go against the grain here and say that I would not push this. My reason for doing so is the situation in the tournament. You have a shorty AI and the action about to pass to scarp next hand which will put ¼ of his stack in on the BB alone. I think you can pass this up and wait for the bubble to burst. You can always go back into push/fold mode after the button passes. Sure, I understand the principle about playing to win and maximising your premium hands, but I think you should also take into account the state of the tournament, particularly, as you say, the money was quite important to you.

staresy,

You know after posting this, thats the first thing that occured to me! (talking about the AQ)...I must admit i carelessly didnt notice that the previous hand knocked him down to a pretty low stack (he had roughly twice as many chips the previous hand)..If I had I may have folded this , though it would have been tough! I was really regretting that after I thought about it... wish I had been more observant- well thats a lesson right there isnt it?

otherwise your comments make alot of sense to me, thanks for the analysis!

[jdubs]

Ace flops don't concern me when I'm pot-struck with Kings.

wow, fnord, can you elaborate on this comment?

[Diminish]

Hand 1: VQ, I DO not check here on the turn. I make a weak bet into this flop of around 200-300 on turn and hope he does something drastic because he interprets this bet as weakness compared to a check that he might interpret as a trap or possible weakness. If he just calls i bet 400-500 on river, knowing he is unsure of his hand. If he had King of diamonds you will get paid off no matter what probally.

Hand 2:VQ, I do not push KK here, unless I have no talent in playing when a flop comes. HEres I bump it for 500-600.

Hand 3:

Seat 1: downtownHB ($750 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AH,KC] ($4,590 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($6,375 in chips)
Seat 5: MO50 ($2,005 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($3,030 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($9,910 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($5,130 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($8,210 in chips)

You push preflop on hand 3 VQ? Why? I dont want to gamble in this position, if you are not confident in playing a flop then I guess its a good push but how will you ever improve if you dont play flops and try to make reads when three cards are facing up. ON flop I bet around 1k - 1.5k

Hand 6: btw VQ, i dont push here.I raise but to commit myself and not all in. I want to act stronger then I am. MAybe make a substantial raise that will leave me with 600-1000 chips acting like I dont mind a call. because i didnt push all in. Of course, your commited to the pot if he decides to call or reraise you all in on the flop or preflop. Yet, the image your projecting for your hand is much stronger then the AI move.

[vqc]

Hand 1: VQ, I DO not check here on the turn. I make a weak bet into this flop of around 200-300 on turn and hope he does something drastic because he interprets this bet as weakness compared to a check that he might interpret as a trap or possible weakness. If he just calls i bet 400-500 on river, knowing he is unsure of his hand. If he had King of diamonds you will get paid off no matter what probally.

Hand 2:VQ, I do not push KK here, unless I have no talent in playing when a flop comes. HEres I bump it for 500-600.

Hand 3:

Seat 1: downtownHB ($750 in chips)
Seat 2: jdubster [AH,KC] ($4,590 in chips)
Seat 4: scarp1 ($6,375 in chips)
Seat 5: MO50 ($2,005 in chips)
Seat 6: x Shades ($3,030 in chips)
Seat 8: pitbones ($9,910 in chips)
Seat 9: Zig979 ($5,130 in chips)
Seat 10: bashar sweis ($8,210 in chips)

You push preflop on hand 4 VQ? Why? I dont want to gamble in this position, if you are not confident in playing a flop then I guess its a good push but how will you ever improve if you dont play flops and try to make reads when three cards are facing up. ON flop I bet around 1k - 1.5k

Hand 6: btw VQ, i dont push here.I raise but to commit myself and not all in. I want to act stronger then I am. MAybe make a substantial raise that will leave me with 600-1000 chips acting like I dont mind a call. because i didnt push all in. Of course, your commited to the pot if he decides to call or reraise you all in on the flop or preflop. Yet, the image your projecting for your hand is much stronger then the AI move.

Hand 1
How often do you think someone does something drastic here on a four flush board?
Do you think they are going to call u if they dont have a flush?
Do you think they are more apt to bluff off chips if u check the turn and the river?

Hand 2
WAHT ARE U TRYING TO IMPLODE! =D
Did you see my thoughts on the issues of minraising here?

Hand 3
I dont think that calling in position is a bad play here.
I dont think that pushing is a bad play here either.

Hand 6
I want to act as weak as possible and get a call.
Im pretty sure that more often than not I push AA here as well.

[Diminish]

Hand 1

How often do you think someone does something drastic here on a four flush board?
1. Do you think they are going to call u if they dont have a flush?
2. Do you think they are more apt to bluff off chips if u check the turn and the river?

1. They might reraise to steal the pot because your bet indicates weakness
2. If you check the turn and river and then he checks down his pair and your Ace high flush gained no more chips.. Then yes betting here is a good option. If he has nothing you were not gonna get paid off anyway but the small bet on turn is a better option
YOu'd be suprised. Theres a post by Jasson STrasser on two plus two of what opponents will do when your bets confuse them.


Do I think he might reraise with any two because your bet does not represent strength?
A: Yes, possibly
If he has flush will he call and possibly reraise?
A: Yes, possibly

Hand 2
WAHT ARE U TRYING TO IMPLODE! =D
Did you see my thoughts on the issues of minraising here?

Dont yell at me..

Hand 3
I dont think that calling in position is a bad play here.
I dont think that pushing is a bad play here either.

I think pushing is a bad play unless your horrible at playing flops. Remember VQ, the important aspect in playing every hand is to maximize potential earnings. I'd say without any statistics for evidence, that if you push your gonna be losing chips in long run then if you just stick in a raise. Yet, maybe since this player berated himself by calling himself a "nooB", which playing out of his bankroll suggest, that pushing with KK would be the best option due to his lack of experience. no offense intended.

Hand 6
I want to act as weak as possible and get a call.
Im pretty sure that more often than not I push AA here as well.

Why act weak with AQo, its defenitely not a monster you should be super confident with. The top starting hands are as follows
AA,
KK
QQ
AK
JJ
10.10 or AQ

Reason I made this list was to demonstrate that AQ is on the bottom of these good starting hands. Therfore its not really a monster! Its actually a hand that causes alot of people trouble. I think there have been some great post on the troubles of AQ and the mistake of overvaluing it on FTR that might help clear up why its a trouble hand if you overvalue it.
Reason you push with aces is to disguise your hand. Reason you raise but commit yourself with AQ is to disguise your hand. Your misrepresenting your hand. Is it the best move to push with AQo in this spot.. YES. Can you still do the same effect by coming off even stronger by raising but committing yourself to any flop or reraise..YES. I hope you realize the point of why this is a good move VQ and the troubles of overvaluing that darn AQ!!

[vqc]

Hand 1

How often do you think someone does something drastic here on a four flush board?
1. Do you think they are going to call u if they dont have a flush?
2. Do you think they are more apt to bluff off chips if u check the turn and the river?

1. They might reraise to steal the pot because your bet indicates weakness
2. If you check the turn and river and then he checks down his pair and your Ace high flush gained no more chips.. Then yes betting here is a good option. If he has nothing you were not gonna get paid off anyway but the small bet on turn is a better option
YOu'd be suprised. Theres a post by Jasson STrasser on two plus two of what opponents will do when your bets confuse them.


Do I think he might reraise with any two because your bet does not represent strength?
A: Yes, possibly
If he has flush will he call and possibly reraise?
A: Yes, possibly

Hand 2
WAHT ARE U TRYING TO IMPLODE! =D
Did you see my thoughts on the issues of minraising here?

Dont yell at me..

Hand 3
I dont think that calling in position is a bad play here.
I dont think that pushing is a bad play here either.

I think pushing is a bad play unless your horrible at playing flops. Remember VQ, the important aspect in playing every hand is to maximize potential earnings. I'd say without any statistics for evidence, that if you push your gonna be losing chips in long run then if you just stick in a raise. Yet, maybe since this player berated himself by calling himself a "nooB", which playing out of his bankroll suggest, that pushing with KK would be the best option due to his lack of experience. no offense intended.

Hand 6
I want to act as weak as possible and get a call.
Im pretty sure that more often than not I push AA here as well.

Why act weak with AQo, its defenitely not a monster you should be super confident with. The top starting hands are as follows
AA,
KK
QQ
AK
JJ
10.10 or AQ

Reason I made this list was to demonstrate that AQ is on the bottom of these good starting hands. Therfore its not really a monster! Its actually a hand that causes alot of people trouble. I think there have been some great post on the troubles of AQ and the mistake of overvaluing it on FTR that might help clear up why its a trouble hand if you overvalue it.
Reason you push with aces is to disguise your hand. Reason you raise but commit yourself with AQ is to disguise your hand. Your misrepresenting your hand. Is it the best move to push with AQo in this spot.. YES. Can you still do the same effect by coming off even stronger by raising but committing yourself to any flop or reraise..YES. I hope you realize the point of why this is a good move VQ and the troubles of overvaluing that darn AQ!!

ROFL
I used the word IMplode (not imply) and a smiley face which meant that I was just kdding.

[gabe]

hand 1 is good. it makes sense that they called the flop with a diamond and it got there.

hand 2 is hard to play wrong.

hand 3 good.

hand 4 good.

hand 5. i think its probably neutral, but im not sure.

hand 6 is fine.

[MAX]

VQC wrote: Why is 3xBB better than 2x Here?

You are giving implied odds for opps. to take your entire stack on a non A flop, at least give them a bad price. You want to isolate and a min raise doesn't accomplish that. The best bet here is the biggest one that gets a caller. 600 would narrow the field but probably not fold everyone out. 1 caller at 600 gets the same amount in the pot as 2 at 400, but increases your chances of winning. If 2 people want to come along at that price then even better for you as the favorite.

[jdubs]

thanks for the feedback everybody! It seems I did OK here..maybe a couple of things could have been a little better. I was really surprised at the bad plays I saw in this tourney, I figured at the 50$ level, there would be way less of it!- so encouraged by the prospect that I can actually play at this level. Now to build the old BR up to the point I can play here.....