Reading Players At Low Buyin SnGs

[Werddown]

The largest hole in my game during a SnG (well, in ring games too) is trying to decide if I am ahead or behind in a hand, after I raise preflop and throw out my continuation bet.

I play at the $5 and $10 sit and go levels on Pokerstars, which plays a large role in the dilemna I'm having...especially if it is early in the tournament (there are alot of newer players who really have no concept of what their bets/calls/raises are actually saying).

For example, I pick up a hand like AK or AQs and fire out my standard 4-5x pfr (I find a 3x raise just doesnt limit the field enough at this buy-in level). I get called, the flop comes, and it pairs either my ace or my kicker.

I put the continuation bet out there, and get at least one caller (sometimes I get raised). If there is a flush draw on the board, and I get flat called, I will usually put this type of player on the draw, and have no problem firing out a second bet on the turn to see where I stand. When I'm raised (on the flop), I'm in a tight spot, because with no reads it is extremely difficult for me to decide whether a player has picked up a stronger hand, or if they are simply overplaying their pair of aces with a weaker kicker. Usually in this situation I lay my hand down because I simply do not have enough information about the player to put them on a hand.

I can't count the number of times that I've continuation bet, and get called or raised by someone with a hand like A9. After I see the A9, I'll say out loud to myself 'What is this guy crazy? What is he even doing in the pot with me?'

I guess what I'm really trying to say, is that during the early stages of a low buyin SnG, I've got no idea what the other players are up to. It makes me extremely hesitant to even consider showing down the hand after I get a call/raise... even though a large portion of the time I'm actually ahead.

I suppose this is the reason that most people reccomend just laying low during the early stages of the tournament and studying your opponents... I often find myself wanting to move up out of my bankroll, just so I can more accurately put the other players on hands. I know this type of thinking is -EV... and I should actually be happy that other players are making bad plays...

I find myself either getting knocked out really early in a tournament, running into a set or a really well hidden straight.... OR I double up early, and coast to the bubble (this is usually where the blinds start getting high enough to be worth stealing) where I can play my bubble game. OR my stack doesnt increase at all, or even slightly decreases, I get near the bubble, and I'm shortstacked, fighting for my life pushing at every opportunity, eventually running into an extremely strong hand or getting called by a gambler and losing the flip.

I dont know if I really even have a question... I've read alot of the SnG guides on this site and others... I have a basic idea of what I'm "Supposed" to do.. But I still cant seem to build my bankroll. Actually, right now my bankroll is decreasing.

[IslandAK]

My rating is going to show high-card, keep that in mind while you read.

If I have AK, raise it up, and hit the flop I have to think I'm good. I'll bet the pot most times. If I get called, great, they're on the draw or smaller Ace. I slam the turn, full pot. However, I will slow down on the river after two BIG calls, mostly -- I mean who calls off their whole stack on a draw? Some people do, if that's your read bet the river too, 1/2 the pot usually for me. Sometimes they call and show me middle pair to go with their flush draw.

If my flop bet gets reraised I probably call and see what my opponent does on the turn. Depends on how big the raise is.

Don't get me wrong. I pretty much always lay down TPTK to all All-In reraise to my flop bet. And I KNOW I'm laying down to a smaller Ace sometimes. But mostly I've just kept myself in the game(probably 90%). Hell, if the guy is that dumb you can catch him later.

Also, I believe your "continuation bets" are actually "value bets." You made your hand. Continuation bets are when you miss the flop but bet anyway. You SHOULD be doing that too, but that's another post.

Post some hand histories, that can help all of us see what you see.

[vqc]

My rating is going to show high-card, keep that in mind while you read.

hanvt looked at the actual question yet, but more importantly
you dont need to worry about wat ur rating says. No one cares =)

Ur advice will be taken just like everyone elses and criticized just like everyone elses.

[Fortune 500]

Questions like this I just can't answer. They're valid points, and worthy of consideration, but it's all so situational, that you can't give broad sweeping advice like "Bet on the river" or "Check/Fold."

It all depends on so many variables, and that's what makes poker great and frustrating. All you can do is analze the situation your in, and make the best decision possible at that time.

All I can suggest is to post a few individual hand histories, and get some feedback. That will help you more than some generic answer.

[mpc2323]

u get KK AA early and u have lots of limpers u raise it to 250$. Someone will tag along and lose all their money!!!!

The largest hole in my game during a SnG (well, in ring games too) is trying to decide if I am ahead or behind in a hand, after I raise preflop and throw out my continuation bet.

I play at the $5 and $10 sit and go levels on Pokerstars, which plays a large role in the dilemna I'm having...especially if it is early in the tournament (there are alot of newer players who really have no concept of what their bets/calls/raises are actually saying).

For example, I pick up a hand like AK or AQs and fire out my standard 4-5x pfr (I find a 3x raise just doesnt limit the field enough at this buy-in level). I get called, the flop comes, and it pairs either my ace or my kicker.

I put the continuation bet out there, and get at least one caller (sometimes I get raised). If there is a flush draw on the board, and I get flat called, I will usually put this type of player on the draw, and have no problem firing out a second bet on the turn to see where I stand. When I'm raised (on the flop), I'm in a tight spot, because with no reads it is extremely difficult for me to decide whether a player has picked up a stronger hand, or if they are simply overplaying their pair of aces with a weaker kicker. Usually in this situation I lay my hand down because I simply do not have enough information about the player to put them on a hand.

I can't count the number of times that I've continuation bet, and get called or raised by someone with a hand like A9. After I see the A9, I'll say out loud to myself 'What is this guy crazy? What is he even doing in the pot with me?'

I guess what I'm really trying to say, is that during the early stages of a low buyin SnG, I've got no idea what the other players are up to. It makes me extremely hesitant to even consider showing down the hand after I get a call/raise... even though a large portion of the time I'm actually ahead.

I suppose this is the reason that most people reccomend just laying low during the early stages of the tournament and studying your opponents... I often find myself wanting to move up out of my bankroll, just so I can more accurately put the other players on hands. I know this type of thinking is -EV... and I should actually be happy that other players are making bad plays...

I find myself either getting knocked out really early in a tournament, running into a set or a really well hidden straight.... OR I double up early, and coast to the bubble (this is usually where the blinds start getting high enough to be worth stealing) where I can play my bubble game. OR my stack doesnt increase at all, or even slightly decreases, I get near the bubble, and I'm shortstacked, fighting for my life pushing at every opportunity, eventually running into an extremely strong hand or getting called by a gambler and losing the flip.

I dont know if I really even have a question... I've read alot of the SnG guides on this site and others... I have a basic idea of what I'm "Supposed" to do.. But I still cant seem to build my bankroll. Actually, right now my bankroll is decreasing.

[JeffreyGB]

If you have AK, raised preflop, and paired one of your cards, you are not making a continuation bet. You are making a value bet. Without reads, I'm usually ready to go to the mattresses here, ESPECIALLY in low buyin SnGs.

As a review: a continuation bet is a bet you make once the flop comes when you don't hit your hand. You're trying to take it down anyway. If you're always getting called, continuation bets aren't that great an idea (though you may well just need to change something about how you're doing it).

[JeffreyGB]

I often find myself wanting to move up out of my bankroll, just so I can more accurately put the other players on hands.

People make bonehead plays at all levels. This is a very bad idea. I'll agree that once you can crush the game at a given level, moving up may provide a slight aid to reads, but the increase in good players (who can out play you) makes it not worth it until you are crushing the competition at your current level AND you have the BR to support moving up.

[TLR]

Lower level games in which people have less of a clue are easier to beat then the higher level ones.
Just because people make logical decisions it does not mean it is easier to outplay them.
Play tight early on, dont risk too much of your stack in continuation bets, you will have plenty of time to outplay them later

[brian1175]

WERD, I too play smaller limit SNG's. Usually these people will have an Ace or Pocket pair. If you are playing AK early, make sure you have posistion. You catch you Ace or King and he checks....Make a pot bet. If he cold calls, Push the turn. You worry about this player catching 2 pair or a set. In the long run you will win, and at the lower limits you will win alot. Playing this hand out of posistion is where it gets tricky or when you don't hit. If you catch it though...push

[gabe]

read every hand history that goes to showdown to see what the players mucked. do this in every tournament, and play 500 tournaments. you will be much better at reading players after this.