Leading out with the joint

[Chicago_Kid]

Some don't like these "the nuts" situations, but I think that they are critical in MTT's---particularly when out of position. If you aren't careful, you can flush a lot of value down the tubes. Here is such a scenario.

So, I ask, under normal circumstances, how much do you bet to max your payout? OF NOTE: This is level 12, so there really aren't any LAG's left...

PokerStars Game #3170511766: Tournament #15370122, Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (800/1600) - 2005/11/27 - 01:26:33 (ET)
Table '15370122 52' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: kardplayer11 (38920 in chips)
Seat 2: vadgebadger (31147 in chips)
Seat 3: Itto (66818 in chips)
Seat 4: youngin (29380 in chips)
Seat 5: DaChicagoKid (30157 in chips)
Seat 6: wopher2 (29421 in chips)
Seat 7: JimmyJones (22097 in chips)
Seat 8: RBirnb4817 (30182 in chips)
Seat 9: gspadz (19940 in chips)
kardplayer11: posts the ante 75
vadgebadger: posts the ante 75
Itto: posts the ante 75
youngin: posts the ante 75
DaChicagoKid: posts the ante 75
wopher2: posts the ante 75
JimmyJones: posts the ante 75
RBirnb4817: posts the ante 75
gspadz: posts the ante 75
Itto: posts small blind 800
youngin: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DaChicagoKid [Jc Ac]
DaChicagoKid: raises 3200 to 4800
wopher2: folds
JimmyJones: folds
RBirnb4817: calls 4800
gspadz: calls 4800
kardplayer11: folds
vadgebadger: folds
Itto: folds
youngin: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 4c 6c]
DaChicagoKid: bets 5000
RBirnb4817: folds
gspadz: folds
DaChicagoKid collected 17475 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 17475 | Rake 0
Board [2c 4c 6c]
Seat 1: kardplayer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: vadgebadger (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Itto (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: youngin (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: DaChicagoKid collected (17475)
Seat 6: wopher2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: JimmyJones folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: RBirnb4817 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: gspadz folded on the Flop

[gabe]

i dont like it when the stacks are deep, because people are more likely to try and steal the pot from you.

[daluchy]

I'd rather lead out small if you wanna bet the flop and hope to get some action. Check/call - check/raise - small bet is my line in that order.
Level 12 or not, people can still get aggressive if they see weakness with a large pot.

[chardrian]

You've made your hand. You want to send off the "damn why do I always get called when I raise preflop" vibes. If you make a continuation bet every time you raise preflop, then make your standard continuation bet here. If you have ever checked and folded after a preflop raise (which I assume is the case), then check here and make a weak "steal" bet on the turn.

[Chicago_Kid]

You've made your hand. You want to send off the "damn why do I always get called when I raise preflop" vibes. If you make a continuation bet every time you raise preflop, then make your standard continuation bet here. If you have ever checked and folded after a preflop raise (which I assume is the case), then check here and make a weak "steal" bet on the turn.

Good call, Chard. I actually was shooting for the "I've got something, But I'm weak, so I'm gonna Bet strong" viBe. Nonetheless, this was too complex and didn't work. I think with all unders and cluBBed Board, I could have just checked as if I was willing to give it up, and induce a LP Bet. I see this alot with an all suited Board, and I also see the LP player try to pick up the pot. Doh...

[Chicago_Kid]

I'd rather lead out small if you wanna bet the flop and hope to get some action. Check/call - check/raise - small bet is my line in that order.
Level 12 or not, people can still get aggressive if they see weakness with a large pot.

You know, I really don't like this min Bet play out of position. I think it can really work in position, B/c they don't know if it's a weak steal or a value Bet. However, given that I hate it so much, it proBaBly works quite a Bit, By inducing a steal attempt.

[chardrian]

The benefit of the check here is that the pot is now so juicy compared to your three stacks that the potential for your opps trying to take a stab with a bluff or even better a semi-bluff are high.

[zenbitz]

Your c-bet does not rep a c-bet, it reps value. You really bet 1/3rd of the pot into 3 low clubs if you have AJhearts OOP?

I think your best hope here is to feign weakness and hope someone with a club comes along for the ride.

OOP, I check-call. last to act, I would consider min-betting or something.

If my opponents have demonstrated savvy - you could open-push this flop! I mean, who pushes with the nuts?? Might get a call by Kc or overpair, or even straight draw.

[Gareth]

gspadz has 15000ish left and last to act with two checks to a 6 high three flush board that might just be to tempting for him not to try and steal- if not just check again and on the river - just like someone mentioned "who pushes the nuts" well not many people expect you to "check the nuts three times" - I've had some success with this play against certain players who can't help themselves but to bet big when it has been checked round to them three times.