AK very first hand

[silverfist]

This was a tough one. I went overtop of someone on the first hand (people tend to bet very aggressively on the first hand, hoping to double up). All of a sudden I was facing two all-ins. What is the best play?

PokerStars Game #3178519121: Tournament #15370184, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/11/27 - 21:47:00 (ET)
Table '15370184 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: THEcookieman (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: Silverfist (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: thened (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: MaddogRich (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: BUCKMASTR (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: MagicWoman (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: shawnoneill (1500 in chips)
Silverfist: posts small blind 10
thened: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Silverfist [Kh Ad]
MaddogRich: calls 20
BUCKMASTR: folds
MagicWoman: calls 20
shawnoneill: raises 120 to 140
THEcookieman: folds
Silverfist: raises 280 to 420
thened: folds
MaddogRich: raises 1080 to 1500 and is all-in
C^Dubbs21 is connected
Axase is connected
MagicWoman: folds
shawnoneill: calls 1360 and is all-in
Silverfist ???

[RangerX]

I'd say at least one of them has Aces of Kings, at the very least Jacks or better you're going to be facing. You could be in a coinflip situation and if you want a huge stack early it might not be a terrible call. I'd personally lay them down though.

[jacbmw]

i tend to under play this type of hand pre-flop in the first hand. High PP and its a different story. I try to see the flop as cheap as possible first hand and make the play on the flop.

Also the tourney buy-in is relevent, if it was a low limit, these all-in players could have anything on the first hand.

[gabe]

your big raise commits you to calling

[ProZachNation]

Call and hope no one has AA or KK and then its pretty much a coinflip.

~1/3 of you stack in with maybe a 1/3 chance to triple up and dominate. Someone once said something about how this is a +ev/hr play because if you win you have a very good chance of moneying and if you lose you only played for a minute and can move on to the next one. But if you fold you will be at a huge disadvantage early on and may end up wasting an hour and not moneying.

[Chicago_Kid]

your big raise commits you to calling

You will get 3-1 and your odds are 1.5/2-1. Get your money in and get lucky:

23,881,276,188 games 58.407 secs 408,876,952 games/sec

Board:
Dead: equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)
Hand 1: 39.8892 % [ 00.37 00.03 ] { AKo }
Hand 2: 30.0258 % [ 00.28 00.02 ] { AA-66, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KJo, QJo }
Hand 3: 30.0850 % [ 00.28 00.02 ] { AA-55, AKs-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KJo, QJo }

[TanO]

Wouldn't have reraised - that's a 6x BB raise you're calling, I'd just call and see the flop then make the play.

Since that didn't happen and you're facing two allins I'd fold unless it's a rebuy or very cheap MTT.

If this was in the $20 180 man SNG's I'd fold every time and wait for a much better spot.

[chardrian]

your big raise commits you to calling

I agree.

[Sprayed]

Wouldn't have reraised - that's a 6x BB raise you're calling, I'd just call and see the flop then make the play.

Since that didn't happen and you're facing two allins I'd fold unless it's a rebuy or very cheap MTT.

If this was in the $20 180 man SNG's I'd fold every time and wait for a much better spot.

If you reraised for action, well you got it. I have to agree with Tano here and just call their initial raise. But, you have committed yourself so make the call.

[TanO]

I guess the question for me is are you really committed here ? With the blinds at 10/20 and still T1080 if you fold, I still think that's plenty of chips to continue with and look for a better opportunity. I'm assuming this isn't a freeroll and that at best one of the other players has at least JJ.

[chardrian]

1080 into a pot of ~ 3500 = instacall for me w/ AK (only way I'd fold is if I had an airtight read that I was up against AA, which I never would have online).

[zenbitz]

call, suck out on JQT flop.

[shysti]

I guess the question for me is are you really committed here ? With the blinds at 10/20 and still T1080 if you fold, I still think that's plenty of chips to continue with and look for a better opportunity. I'm assuming this isn't a freeroll and that at best one of the other players has at least JJ.

Wow this is a good question, I am split with my decision, on one hand the better of me agrees with the above comment, but chardian's also is understandable.

I personally would fold here, and recoup my losses later. Ak is still a drawing hand and there's two people all in, probably with some of the outs you would need to have the hand to win this, not to mention you may be up against a big pair and are a slight underdog, to me this is a fold and wait for a better spot, since it is so early in the tournament.

[shysti]

Well this is kinda ironic, I just logged onto Stars for a tournament and the 2nd hand I get is AK, and I kind based my action off of this thread just to see what would happen and this was the result:

PokerStars Game #3185350189: Tournament #15763165, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/11/28 - 18:02:26 (ET)
Table '15763165 3' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Huggstercues (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: Corp Corp (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: tdynamike (1420 in chips)
Seat 4: skybluejo (1590 in chips)
Seat 5: AiChoToiTien (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: DogIgotaces (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: shysti (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: heyheyy557 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: DirtyD805 (1500 in chips)
tdynamike: posts small blind 10
skybluejo: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Ks Ac]
AiChoToiTien has timed out
AiChoToiTien: folds
AiChoToiTien is sitting out
DogIgotaces: folds
shysti: raises 60 to 80
heyheyy557: calls 80
DirtyD805: folds
Huggstercues: folds
Corp Corp: folds
tdynamike: folds
skybluejo: raises 1510 to 1590 and is all-in
shysti: calls 1420 and is all-in
heyheyy557: calls 1420 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [7s Qs 7h]
*** TURN *** [7s Qs 7h] [Th]
AiChoToiTien has returned
*** RIVER *** [7s Qs 7h Th] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
skybluejo: shows [8s 8h] (two pair, Eights and Sevens)
shysti: shows [Ks Ac] (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
heyheyy557: shows [4d 4c] (two pair, Sevens and Fours)
shysti collected 4510 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4510 | Rake 0
Board [7s Qs 7h Th Kd]
Seat 1: Huggstercues folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Corp Corp (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: tdynamike (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: skybluejo (big blind) showed [8s 8h] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
Seat 5: AiChoToiTien folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DogIgotaces folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: shysti showed [Ks Ac] and won (4510) with two pair, Kings and Sevens
Seat 8: heyheyy557 showed [4d 4c] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Fours
Seat 9: DirtyD805 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[TanO]

aha, that's a $1 5 table sng right ? In that case I call every time, both situations

[chardrian]

There's a big difference between calling all-in for a chance to more than triple your all-in and calling all-in just to double up.

I also would not recommend ever playing a hand "just to see what would happen."

The call w/ AK in shysti's hand is not so instant for me. I might make it, but I think a fold is probably the better move here.

[shysti]

There's a big difference between calling all-in for a chance to more than triple your all-in and calling all-in just to double up.

I also would not recommend ever playing a hand "just to see what would happen."

The call w/ AK in shysti's hand is not so instant for me. I might make it, but I think a fold is probably the better move here.

lol loosen up man, it's not always so serious when I play, I normally don't make a play just to see what will happen but in this case I did. It'll be ok the world will still continue to revolve.

[chardrian]

Fair nuff. I'm not mad.

I am worried about our mental approach to the game though. It just seems to me you try to rationalize every play you make and/or hand you post. When it's a bad beat you were very serious about the hand/tourney and you don't understand how some donk played it that way. When you put a beat on someone else however... your attitude suddenly changes to one of "whatever happens, happens... I'm just here to have a good time."

I am definitely an advocate for having fun while playing - as long as you are ok with the consequences of playing that way, have at it.

[shysti]

Nah it's not like that at all, either way it's experience, so I mean I dunno sorry if I am giving off a certain impression.

[konahead]

This is a case of "do i feel like gambling or playing solid poker". If you want to gamble, call the all-ins. Good chance that one has AK also and the other has some pocket pair and will take both your stacks cuz you're sharing outs. Otherwise fold and play solid poker to get your stack back. I disagree that you are pot committed - you still have 1000+ chips left.

So it boils down to whether you feel like gambling.

[Lexicon Devil]

What level is this?

It looks like a cheapy with lots of donks, but if this was a $30+ buyin, I think it's an easy fold.

You're getting just over 3-to-1 pot odds.

Let's examine some scenarios:

1)Best case scenario (AQs & QQ):
- you have 37.5% pot equity
- your fold would be bad, but not horrible
- this case is unlikely

2) Best case scenario 2 (QQ & JJ)
- you have 36.7% pot equity
- your fold would be bad, but not horrible

3) Marginal scenario (KK & QQ/JJ/TT)
- your have 24.8% pot equity
- borderline call or fold
- this seems to me to be one of the most likely scenarios

4) Bad scenario 1 (AK & QQ)
- you have 17.5% pot equity
- your call would be bad, but not horrible

5) Bad scenario 2 (AK & KK)
- you have 13.8% pot equity
- your call would be bad
- this case is unlikely

6) Awful scenario 1 (AK & AA)
- you have 3.6% pot equity
- your call is atrocious, awful, just plain hopeless
- this case is unlikely

7) Awful scenario 2 (AA & KK)
- you have 5.5% pot equity
- your call is awful
- this case is somewhat unlikely

8) Awful scenario 3 (AA & QQ/JJ..)
- you have 6.0% pot equity
- your call is awful
- this seems to be one of the most likely scenarios.




Conclusion: Using the fundamental theorem of poker, you might be making a slightly bad decision by folding - but you will never be making a horrible decision. On the contrary, by calling it's quite likely that you are making an atrocious decision.

Of course, you probably shouldn't have reraised in the first place, but that's another story.

Fold.

[Aquinas]

Easy call for me. Pot odds are too good... Even in the high stakes games. But I don't like ur reraise. Call and c a flop instead.