folding an overpair

[SaulPaul]

The blinds are 25/50 and about to go up. Folding at this point will leave me with about 750 in chips, but not long to double up. I think AJ is a def possibilty here here, making this a tough choice


Deaklt to SaulPaul (QcQs)

SaulPaul raises to 200

Villain raises 325
SaulPaul Calls

Flop: J 6 2 rainbow

Villain bets 50
SaulPaul raises 300
Villain re-reaises 425
?????????????//

Villain bets 50

[vqc]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

[SaulPaul]

i think we're both on about 1500 chips. its a two table tourney so blinds go up slower than usual

[Robert]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

[AHiltz]

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Not true. If this is a $10 or lower buyin, AJ would call your flop push. I've even seen TT call a flop push in situations like that.

[vqc]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

1k behind
600 in pot

lead for 450
1050 in pot
you have 550 behind

opponent pushes for 1k
2050 in pot
550 for u to call

ur getting 4:1 for the call.
are u going to fold?

[vqc]

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Not true. If this is a $10 or lower buyin, AJ would call your flop push. I've even seen TT call a flop push in situations like that.

I kno lots of people will make pushes like this regardless of the level.

when the pot is 60% of ur stack and you have an overpair, I dont kno if theres a better play for you to make.

[Robert]

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Not true. If this is a $10 or lower buyin, AJ would call your flop push. I've even seen TT call a flop push in situations like that.

I agree. Let me change what I said: _most_ ppl wont call the push with anyting less than AJ. AJ is possible, but I think the possibility is very small that opp would reraise prf with AJ (yeah, there some of the donks around who would make this play, but without a read I wont make a move that relies on my opponent being a complete fool).

About the push:
What hand would opp reraise with preflop? Without a read I would say AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK (AQ, AJ, TT are possible , but without a read I wont count them as possibilities) - I will count out QQ because the possibility of that holding is so small. Pushing the flop will make AK fold, and AA, KK, JJ call you, and you will loose your hole stack (assuming opp has you covered). Thats why I dont want to push the flop. Reraising opps weak bet like our hero did leaves him a way to escape with still 750 chips behind, which is ok with blinds at 25/50.

But really, without more information, like reads, stack sized, structures etc, there isnt any clear answer to SaulPauls question.

[pgil]

i think the biggest question we need to ask him is, does he want/is he willing to fold his queens? if he doesnt, then push on a non overcard flop. If he folds he is gonna be thinking for the rest of the tournament about how that donk pushed him off his overpair with an AJ. Plus he will have a diminished stack, and the few people who are paying attention will now think that they can play back at him and get him to fold.

on a side note, AK would call that push at least 75% of the time at 10+1, closer to 85-90% at 5+.50, especially since they went to all of the trouble of reraising preflop. the opponent is not getting away from their hand.

[Robert]

.

on a side note, AK would call that push at least 75% of the time at 10+1, closer to 85-90% at 5+.50, especially since they went to all of the trouble of reraising preflop. the opponent is not getting away from their hand.

From my experience this is not the case in sngs on stars.

[zarry]

I think its safe to think your not beat here... With your raise preflop he did not play j6 j2 and hit 2 pair... Now I dont know how long you have played with him but he could easily be a fish overplaying his top pair right into you... leaving it for the taking, Ive seen many a hands overplayed in the lower lvl sng's So honestly it would not suprise me for him to hold top pair right now.

As for an overpair on you, I wouldnt be too worried your getting 4:1 on your money this is a call you should make just about everytime... Overpair with a rainbow flop 4:1 on your money... IMO

[PokerPatNEU]

It looks like he is in the SB and you in the BB, and no one else came into the pot pre flop, correct?

If this is the case, we can discount KK and AA almost assuredly. Your reraise pre flop is so small, one of those two hands would definitely put in a small reraise that prices you in. With 1500 stacks, it is too early for this to be a total blind steal...so we are probably looking at AK-Ax/99ish-JJ.

The only hand that beats you in a (very) generic villain's raising range is JJ. There is ~1200 in the pot, 125 to you to call, and you have about 800 left. This is a clear push to me. Calling is the worst option, if he is a laggy villain on an unimproved AK you could be shooting yourself in the face. Folding would be extremely weak in this situation, especially with the blinds abou to double and you being short stacked at 16BB(before the blind raise) if you fold. Push and pay off JJ.

[Fortune 500]

You better have a damn good read to think about folding here.

I push, just far too many ways you're ahead, and so few that you're behind.

[zenbitz]

1) Reraise preflop, that is already setting off bells of premium pair (although not so much if it's a blind battle)

2) Min bet - re-raise on the flop. That smells like a set/overpair to me... and you don't beat any overpairs.

In a blind battle, I guess I'm going with my QQ hell or high water. If think he thinks I am super aggressive and is trying to teach me a lesson, I can see a push.

There is some conflicting advice above as well:

1) AK is likely to call your push
2) You shouldn't call his raise (despite odds) because if A/K turns you will puke.

I would argue if 1) is true then 2) is false - you might as well call, and can try to get away cheap if A/K falls.

[silverfist]

Meh. Push it. I'd say you're probably behind here, but I wouldn't lay 2:1 odds on it (which is what you'd be laying). If your queens are beat, they're beat. Actually, I would have pushed this pre-flop. With AA, KK, QQ or AKs, I love getting all my chips in and letting them ride.

[elanto]

push here..if you fold your left with a very little amount of money. Hell probably have Aj or maybe even TT/99..I mean if youve been playing aggresively hell probably think youre bluffiing him or pushing him of the pot so he can raise with TT or 99 to see were he stanbds..unlikely but possible


-anto

[a500lbgorilla]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Thx, I needed a good laugh. At low buyins, I would be shocked if I wasn't ahead atleast 70% of the time here.

-'rilla

[vqc]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Thx, I needed a good laugh. At low buyins, I would be shocked if I wasn't ahead atleast 70% of the time here.

-'rilla

wat about at like the 109s and 215s?

[skorpeo]

I would definately push pre-flop. You dominate almost every hand. +ev.
imho

[Robert]

structure
stacksizes
please!

I push the flop.
1k behind
600 in pot
Push.

Why push the flop? You will only get called by hands that beat you - why do you want that?

Thx, I needed a good laugh. At low buyins, I would be shocked if I wasn't ahead atleast 70% of the time here.

-'rilla

what hands would that be? if you dont know wether opp is fishy I asume that the only hands that you beat that will call your push are AJ and Ak, and I dont think AJ is very likely because of the prf reraise. That leaves the rest of the hands that beat you.