I blame Harrington! (crappy 2pr in SB)

[Blinky]

Yeah yeah yeah, fold preflop. I blame Harrington - pot odds seemed to justify a call IMO.

PokerStars Game #3254989351: Tournament #16110459, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2005/12/06 - 01:08:56 (ET)
Table '16110459 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: xPODx (3285 in chips)
Seat 3: Bizowich (1075 in chips)
Seat 4: Blinky_3eyes (3380 in chips)
Seat 5: Th3Birdman (2865 in chips)
Seat 8: KC MAC (2895 in chips)
Bizowich: posts small blind 100
Blinky_3eyes: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Blinky_3eyes [Kc 2c]
Th3Birdman: calls 200
KC MAC: raises 200 to 400
xPODx: folds
Bizowich: folds
Blinky_3eyes: calls 200
Th3Birdman: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [3d 2h Kd]

-your move no. 1-

flop akshun in white

Blinky_3eyes: bets 400
Th3Birdman: folds
KC MAC: calls 400


*** TURN *** [3d 2h Kd] [Ah]

your move no. 2!

Opp was pretty tight preflop and hadn't preflop raised in a while. He only ever minbet/minraised it seemed.

[ChrisBCritter]

Ok, here we are at the flop (never mind PF)

I bet 900/1000 into this 1200 pot. Smooth calls scare me here (I start thinking 33 real quick). AI Re-raise says flush draw to me. I would call with the big stack, and pot odds.

Ok, as played, the turn I'm kinda stuck. I'm guessing he's on the flush draw, and I stack him there. If played as I would've played above, and he smooth called my flop bet, I'm in check/fold mode to big bets.

[PokerPatNEU]

If villain had AK i would expect him to raise your flop bet to find where he stands. Same thing if he had AA i think. Unlikely he raises from UTG with 33/22. KK is a possibility. I think more likely its AQ-AT of diamonds to call your flop bet instead of raising. Shorthanded i think it's reasonable he'd raise with any one of those biggish suited ace hands from UTG. I probably go with that and play accordingly.

[Sprayed]

You need to make a pot sized bet to make it expensive for him to call. My question is what type of hand does a person mini raise with? Sometimes its a weak Ax, but sometimes its a monster that people are trying to hide. What type of hand justifies a smooth call on the flop? I'm guessing a draw of some sort or he has a K but unsure about his kicker.

[Aquinas]

Flop check raise big and allin on turn. As is, bet 80% of pot on the turn. call a reraise. Shove river. I go broke with this hand.

[mcatdog]

Fold preflop. Against a raiser, you're not going to be confident you're ahead on the flop unless you flop 2 pair or better. You're not getting the pot odds you need to call this raise, considering that you'll be folding the flop almost all of the time. aokrongly wrote a great post about this called the "small blind sucker punch station."

On the flop, I'm going for broke. I'm guessing from the title of the thread that he had AA or AK or KK and you lost all your chips. However, you said he minraises kind of often so you can't be scared of a monster, just because of his minraise. Also, I don't want to check-raise him and scare him off of a weak king, I want all of his chips and I think leading out 600 or maybe 800 is the best way to accomplish that. 400 is too small of a bet unless this opponent has a history of coming over the top of weak flop bets. Go all-in on the turn.

[Rondavu]

You never should have been involved. Pot odds are one thing. Trouble hands are another. They mix like oil and water. I constantly fold stuff like Ax offsuit and Kx offsuit for the right price. There are just better spots.

and oh ya Minraise = Monster wanting action at high blind levels. It's not always true, but I'd say 50% of the time it is.

[GixMage]

Avoiding the preflop call, which has (and will always be) debated, the flop is a minefield. Yes, you have 2 pair, but you have bottom pair, which can easily be couterfeited by the board pairing or by someone with Kx hitting his kicker. There is also a flush draw. The pot post flop is 1200 , which is over 1/3 of your stack. You have a good hand, but not even close to the nuts. Your goal is to win the pot now. You really need to bet around 1000, but honestly pushing might not be horrible. If the pf raise is a pp, unless its KK (not likely), 22, or 33 (again, not likely), you are ahead. Anything else has you ahead, but only for the moment, and any turn card may change that. The flop bet allowed KC to catch up, and Im guessing AK caught you here. The main problem is the flop bet was way too low, and made the turn extremely tricky. Harrington is a big proponent of pot odds, but only if you can play good postflop. Otherwise, fold and keep yourself out of the borderline decisions. Just my 2 cents.

[silverfist]

Avoiding the preflop call, which has (and will always be) debated, the flop is a minefield. Yes, you have 2 pair, but you have bottom pair, which can easily be couterfeited by the board pairing or by someone with Kx hitting his kicker. There is also a flush draw. The pot post flop is 1200 , which is over 1/3 of your stack. You have a good hand, but not even close to the nuts. Your goal is to win the pot now. You really need to bet around 1000, but honestly pushing might not be horrible. If the pf raise is a pp, unless its KK (not likely), 22, or 33 (again, not likely), you are ahead. Anything else has you ahead, but only for the moment, and any turn card may change that. The flop bet allowed KC to catch up, and Im guessing AK caught you here. The main problem is the flop bet was way too low, and made the turn extremely tricky. Harrington is a big proponent of pot odds, but only if you can play good postflop. Otherwise, fold and keep yourself out of the borderline decisions. Just my 2 cents.

This seems bang on. Actually, I don't think your biggest mistake was the preflop call (though I would have been unlikely to make it), but that flop bet. There's 1300 in there, and you have two pair with about 3000 left. You've got to put at least 850 in there, or even 1300 to be scary. Pushing or check-raising the flop would not suck, either. Then, if you're called, plan to push the turn. You're actually in a great situation on that flop. If that mini-raise preflop meant AK, Queens or Aces, you're in position to bust someone.

After the ace flopped with that little bet, I'd suggest just check-folding it, or maybe check-calling if the bet is small. If he checks the turn, well, maybe put in a little be on the river and see if he folds or pays you off. If he raises, you're done.

[vqc]

Avoiding the preflop call, which has (and will always be) debated, the flop is a minefield. Yes, you have 2 pair, but you have bottom pair, which can easily be couterfeited by the board pairing or by someone with Kx hitting his kicker. There is also a flush draw. The pot post flop is 1200 , which is over 1/3 of your stack. You have a good hand, but not even close to the nuts. Your goal is to win the pot now. You really need to bet around 1000, but honestly pushing might not be horrible. If the pf raise is a pp, unless its KK (not likely), 22, or 33 (again, not likely), you are ahead. Anything else has you ahead, but only for the moment, and any turn card may change that. The flop bet allowed KC to catch up, and Im guessing AK caught you here. The main problem is the flop bet was way too low, and made the turn extremely tricky. Harrington is a big proponent of pot odds, but only if you can play good postflop. Otherwise, fold and keep yourself out of the borderline decisions. Just my 2 cents.

This seems bang on. Actually, I don't think your biggest mistake was the preflop call (though I would have been unlikely to make it), but that flop bet. There's 1300 in there, and you have two pair with about 3000 left. You've got to put at least 850 in there, or even 1300 to be scary. Pushing or check-raising the flop would not suck, either. Then, if you're called, plan to push the turn. You're actually in a great situation on that flop. If that mini-raise preflop meant AK, Queens or Aces, you're in position to bust someone.

After the ace flopped with that little bet, I'd suggest just check-folding it, or maybe check-calling if the bet is small. If he checks the turn, well, maybe put in a little be on the river and see if he folds or pays you off. If he raises, you're done.

Boht of these are really good thoughtful posts.

However, I would like to point a few things out.
Whether or not they change anyones answers, I dont really know.

Stack size considerations on the flop.
Right now the pot is standing at 1/3 of ur stack. Do you want those chips?
HOw important is it to you that you add those chips to your stack?

Also, betting the pot here and oflding the later streets would leave you at 10xBB, and ont he turn the pot would be somewhere around 3k with u having 2k behind. What cards on the turn make it so that you will fold your 2 pair?

Does betting out first actually gain you any information?
What does KK do when you lead out into him?
Against 2 players whose preflop actions may represent a monster, on a 2 flush board where the only other pair thats going to drop the hammer is AA, will checking and seeing the action garner you more information than betting out?

If your planning on check-raising, I think Check-pushing all in would be even better. I think your probably ahead on the flop here, becuase the only big pair ur worried about is KK, and you already have a K.

A question filled, disjointed post.

[zenbitz]

check-raise all-in on flop. There is a chance that if you check, it will check around, and a diamond might hit.

Leading out is good if opps are aggressive, and you have made probe bets before. Especially if you have folded to raises.

I think a check here is best. Most 1/2 decent SNG players will bet a flop with a flush draw if checked to them. Certainly someone with a K is betting.

In the big blind... out of position... vs. a min raise from a smaller stack... I think are better off re-raising big (or even pushing!) than calling. Pushing is probably a little too dangerous with a mystery min-raiser.

ANOTHER reason to fold pre-flop - the limper behind! If he makes a move you are just dumping chips.

Only reaosn I play K2s here is that I want to defend my blinds and am willing to push to do it.

[Blinky]

Hi guys.

Thanks for the great insight. I have been playing quite little poker lately (busy with work) and have been reading Harrington obviously, which lead to a call that I normally wouldn't make.

Anyways - I was pretty sure that the flop bet was too weak as soon as I made it. Thanks for the reinforcement.

For some reason I didn't put the opp on AK - I would have expected some sort of raise from AK. On the turn, I don't remember the exact sequence of events, but all the money ended up in the middle. I felt that I had the best hand.

Opp turned over AJ.

My hand was counterfeited by a 3 on the river.

I hate 2pr. It's like a set without the power Anyways vq you make a good point. If I make a potsized bet I'm pretty comitted. With the money so shallow, what is the consensu (if any) about pushing on the flop?!