Interesting Flop $10+1 sng's

[Alameda]

PokerStars Game #3301303094: Tournament #16347320, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/12/11 - 01:59:28 (ET)
Table '16347320 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: zwall82 (2930 in chips)
Seat 2: Q BOMB (1375 in chips)
Seat 3: millionstix (1835 in chips)
Seat 4: Brenner (1445 in chips)
Seat 6: Alameda22 (1450 in chips)
Seat 7: ERapp (1695 in chips)
Seat 8: rejd (1460 in chips)
Seat 9: GIJoe33 (1310 in chips)
Alameda22: posts small blind 15
ERapp: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alameda22 [3h 5d]
rejd: calls 30
GIJoe33: folds
zwall82: calls 30
Q BOMB: folds
millionstix: calls 30
Brenner: folds
Alameda22: calls 15
ERapp: checks
*** FLOP *** [6s 5c 3s]
Alameda22: checks
ERapp: bets 30
rejd: raises 30 to 60
zwall82: raises 180 to 240
millionstix: folds
Alameda22 said, "im confused"
Alameda22 said, "thats a ****ty flop whats all the bettin?"


Alameda22: folds
ERapp: raises 270 to 510
rejd: folds
zwall82: calls 270
*** TURN *** [6s 5c 3s] [8d]
ERapp: bets 1155 and is all-in
zwall82: calls 1155
*** RIVER *** [6s 5c 3s 8d] [Kc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ERapp: shows [7d 4s] (a straight, Four to Eight)
zwall82: shows [8h 6h] (two pair, Eights and Sixes)
ERapp collected 3540 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3540 | Rake 0
Board [6s 5c 3s 8d Kc]
Seat 1: zwall82 showed [8h 6h] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sixes
Seat 2: Q BOMB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: millionstix folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Brenner (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Alameda22 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: ERapp (big blind) showed [7d 4s] and won (3540) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 8: rejd folded on the Flop
Seat 9: GIJoe33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)



Any way I can call here? I was planning to check raise, but i certainly wasnt expecting that much agression out of that flop.

[lowBoy]

Fold - sucks, but you're probably up against a set or str8

[Blinky]

I would have bet out on the flop - there's the flush draw and a credible straight draw on the board.

As it is, I dump it. There's at least one draw and possibly a set. You're out of position. You have next to nothing invested and the money is deep.

Sit back and watch the fireworks.

[Fortune 500]

I haven't read the results.... but it sure does look like you might be getting the Rippy straight up the Wazoo here.

It's a limped flop... any hand is possible. Maybe a small set.

Not sure you had the odds to limp 53o out of position to begin with.

Edit: Dang. He DID have the Rippy.

[thnwkd]

Not sure you had the odds to limp 53o out of position to begin with.

he was in the sb. Cost him T$15.00 to see flop with T$135.00 in pot... do u lay down anything here?

I've seen the results even though they're 'invisible', just can't help myself... so i won't offer any opinion on the hand. but great laydown, dont know if i couldve done the same in that spot. perhaps an arguement for mucking this hand eh fortune?

[Fortune 500]

Not sure you had the odds to limp 53o out of position to begin with.

he was in the sb. Cost him T$15.00 to see flop with T$135.00 in pot... do u lay down anything here?

I've seen the results even though they're 'invisible', just can't help myself... so i won't offer any opinion on the hand. but great laydown, dont know if i couldve done the same in that spot. perhaps an arguement for mucking this hand eh fortune?

This SB pot odds question has come up a lot lately.
So I'll say this for about the 5th time.

Pot odds are negated by position and your post flop skill level.

If you're getting good odds, you're going multiway. You're playing multiway, out of position, into a minefield of players, You've got to flop a true monster to actually make it worth while here. I'm not talking two pair. I'm talking Trips and up.

The problem is too many players hit these soft hands (Top pair No Kicker, Gut Shots, or raggy two pairs...) and think they're invincible. You've got to be skilled postflop to make this +EV... and I mean really well skilled. Most of us... myself included... will do well to just save that half bet for a better spot.

See similar discussions here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24582

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=24633

That's my stance anyway.

[vqc]

I lead this flop 100% of the time.

[aislephive]

35o is not worth limping in. I would if it was suited, but it's not, so fold. You flopped bottom two pair and you have a better, a raiser, and a reraiser in front. Your bottom two are no good.

[silverfist]

You've got to fold here. Bottom two pair is good, but not that good. Also, you need to bet this out. Bottom two pair is a good hand, but ridiculously vulnerable. You need to bet out to define your hand, at least the pot, maybe more. Never, ever, ever slowplay bottom two pair.

[Blinky]

Question here. Assume that you bet out on bottom 2pr, which is the way to go.

1. How much do you bet?! With so many in the pot, I'm thinking 3/4 pot or more.

2. How would you play the turn, flat called on the flop by one or two others?

(for all those at home, this is why being out of position sucks )

[Alameda]

I had a feeling questions as to rather my limp with 3/5o was valid.

I limp here not based on the strength of my postflop play, but based on the weakness of the competitions. People like zwall82 who will Raise 4x the raise in front of him with TpLk will generally pay me off well for hittin 2 pair or a straight in a hand like this, and I can thank him for scaring me out of this specific pot when I was up against the nut straight.

As for betting out the flop, I dont see the point, with 5 people in the flop I dont think there is a chance in the world it will check around, and as I said before I fully intended to checkraise were I not facing to raises before me.

I dont see the point of betting out here, by checking im still going to get more chips out of hands I beat, while also feeling out if I have the best hand.

(Correct me if im wrong on any of this Ive only been playing for a couple months so Im not positive, this is just what I find effective against the competition I am faced)

[Blinky]

If you have those reads you should post them with your HH . As it is, it appears that you've taken into account the various playing styles.

Most of our posts have been made in a vacuum of information...

[Fortune 500]

I limp here not based on the strength of my postflop play, but based on the weakness of the competitions.

Just remember... even the dumbass gets lucky sometimes. Tread carefully in this situation.