No Read. Muck this?

[Fortune 500]

Stage #264487379 Tourney ID 56804 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $15 - 2005-12-12 09:26:16 (ET)
Table: 4632976 (Real Money) Seat #8 is the dealer
Seat 2 - K3THEBURGER ($4500 in chips)
Seat 4 - DURCO ($1830 in chips)
Seat 5 - SC1970 ($1395 in chips)
Seat 6 - FORTUNE500 ($2055 in chips)
Seat 7 - BAI SHI SON ($900 in chips)
Seat 8 - PIGDEVIL ($1350 in chips)
Seat 9 - SEMIDON ($1470 in chips)
SEMIDON - Posts small blind $15
K3THEBURGER - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to FORTUNE500 [Kc Ac]
DURCO - Calls $30
SC1970 - Raises $120 to $120
FORTUNE500 - Raises $360 to $360
BAI SHI SON - Folds
PIGDEVIL - Folds
SEMIDON - Folds
K3THEBURGER - Folds
DURCO - Calls $330
SC1970 - All-In(Raise) $1275 to $1395
FORTUNE500 - Folds

No Read. Very early. Smooth caller behind.

[Sprayed]

I would have to fold to a reraise after I reraised.

[vqc]

I fold this.

Question
Why not just smooth call the raiser?

[Fortune 500]

Because just calling with AK is pussy

I had position on him... wanted to see if he was really serious about the hand.

[vqc]

I had position on him...

Isnt that an even better reason to flat call?
Youre not going to get QQ to fold preflop. But postflop...

[konahead]

well, you got your answer - yes, he's serious. good fold.

[Fortune 500]

I had position on him...

Isnt that an even better reason to flat call?
Youre not going to get QQ to fold preflop. But postflop...

Always possible. I very much prefer to define my position preflop early. AA or KK are very likely, in which case I probably get destacked if I hit the flop.

QQ is a very distinct possibility, but I'd rather not race here... I can't go much lower on my read. I Don't think JJ or lower reraises here.

I invested a little more preflop so that I'm not firing in the dark postflop.

Secondly, I'm PROBABLY not making any more money off of QQ if I hit my flop, but I could very likely LOSE a lot more money if I miss and then bet at it (as i'm known to do) or catch a nice peice when he sets.

To me, the entire benefit of defining my stance here is to clarify things postflop.

In short... yes, I raise this just about every time.

[aislephive]

The problem in reraising this early is essentially you're putting in a fourth of your chips to win that pathetic little pot that's out there. Later on when the blinds are bigger, I'd make a stand with the AK. Here however, the blinds are low and there is no need to gamble, smooth call and see if you can make your hand.

Secondly, if you smooth call here and miss the flop it will almost certainly not be checked to you, would QQ-AA check to you on a J73 flop? In fact, almost any hand that raised pre-flop would bet out on that flop.

[zenbitz]

AKo good re-raise, AKs you have the option of calling with position (assuming you can play post flop).

[Fortune 500]

AKo good re-raise, AKs you have the option of calling with position (assuming you can play post flop).

Why would the technically weaker hand merit a reraise, while the stronger hand merits a call?

[vqc]

AKo good re-raise, AKs you have the option of calling with position (assuming you can play post flop).

Why would the technically weaker hand merit a reraise, while the stronger hand merits a call?

one is better multiway?

[WildBobAA]

You have to call this. Looks like DURCO isn't very strong and will probably drop out. You're getting 2:1 with AKs. If you could see his cards and he had KK, you'd mathmatically be getting the right odds to call. You have to call this vs any hand except AA and I've seen enough donkey plays in $15 SnGs he could easily have TT or worse or may have gone crazy with AQ.

Easy call.


The real mistake was commiting yourself to the hand with the reraise.

[zenbitz]

Yes, AKs better multiway plus flush outs against AA/KK/set

Just to clarify - you can re-raise with AKs too, and you can flat call with AKo, but I think I would lean towards calling more if suited.

[salsa4ever]

i would not reraise AKs
but as played, I agree with folding. even if he got mathematically correct odds to call vs. villain's range i'd rather keep my chips to fight with

but the argument for smooth calling is compelling. especially if you have the ability to play postflop.

if villain has KK you're unlikely to hit the case K. if he has AA and you hit a king, then so be it... i'm prepared to take that risk rather than risk putting in 1/4th my stack and not getting to a flop.

[ProZachNation]

Didnt read anyones elses post

Fold becasue I think you will only have 3 outs max

[zarry]

You have to call this. Looks like DURCO isn't very strong and will probably drop out. You're getting 2:1 with AKs. If you could see his cards and he had KK, you'd mathmatically be getting the right odds to call. You have to call this vs any hand except AA and I've seen enough donkey plays in $15 SnGs he could easily have TT or worse or may have gone crazy with AQ.

Easy call.


The real mistake was commiting yourself to the hand with the reraise.

I agree

[Aplomado]

I think it depends on your read of DURCO. Contrary to what WildBob said I don't think it's so clear-cut that he's weak. He called a 12xBB preflop bet. Maybe if you push over the top he'll fold, but he could easily call IMO.

[zarry]

and whats the big deal if he calls... theres 2 hands you can really be fearfull of aa or kk cause that drops ur outs dramtically... otherwise ur getting 2:1 on ur money so its an easy call IMO