4 players, being bullied by the small blind

[KY_Ace]

This play was kinda crazy, even for me, but I forced myself do it.

Do you guys think this was too reckless, especially with 4 players left? I thought that this guy was using one of my favorite strategies, "put a shitload of pressure on the short stacks when there are 4 players left". This was one of hans where I was pretty sure that he was gonna raise as soon as everyone folded to him, to me his average holding was a random hand, I could eliminate a big hand too cuz I've seen him mini-raise these.

I posted the previous hand cuz it shows what kind of player this guy is.

PLAYER INFORMATION
Screen Name Seat position Cards Dealt Start/End Amount Total Bet Win/Loss Amount
bigjax 2 $ 990.00 / $ 890.00 $ 100.00 $ -100.00
ARCH STRATTON 5 3 5 $ 3,365.00 / $ 3,885.00 $ 420.00 $ 520.00
Jawz 7 9 6 $ 915.00 / $ 915.00 $ 0.00 $ 0.00
JAHN 8 $ 4,310.00 / $ 4,310.00 $ 0.00 $ 0.00
acrylo 10 K 8 $ 420.00 / $ 0.00 $ 420.00 $ -420.00

HAND ACTIONS
Player Action Action Data
acrylo Set dealer/Bring in spot 10
bigjax Ante/Small blind $ 50.00
ARCH STRATTON Big blind/Bring in $ 100.00
ARCH STRATTON 3 5
Jawz 9 6
acrylo K 8
Jawz Fold
JAHN Fold
acrylo Call 100
bigjax Call 50
ARCH STRATTON Raise 360
acrylo All-in 320
bigjax Fold 100
ARCH STRATTON Return uncalled portion of bet 40
Side pot 10 = 940
Card dealt to table 8 7 6 4 8
ARCH STRATTON Showdown Show card: Straight
8 7 6 5 4
acrylo Showdown Show card: Three of a Kind
8 8 8 K 7
ARCH STRATTON Hand result 940
_____________________________________________

PLAYER INFORMATION
Screen Name Cards Dealt Chips
bigjax 890
ARCH STRATTON ?? 3,885
Jawz K 8 915.00
JAHN 4,310

HAND ACTIONS
Player Action Action Data
bigjax Set dealer
ARCH STRATTON Ante/Small blind 50
Jawz Big blind/Bring in 100
ARCH STRATTON Card dealt ? ?
Jawz Card dealt K 8
JAHN Fold
bigjax Fold
ARCH STRATTON Raise 450
Jawz All-in 815

[badandy519]

I know this is beating a dead horse, but PLEASE..... I think most posters would agree we don't mind reading hands that don't use a converter, but if you can't/ don't use one, at least delete the lines that aren't relevant to the hand.... ie: "JOIN THE PARTY POKER "insert whatever tourney here" THAT BEGINS AT 7PM" or whatever.

[KY_Ace]

OK, I cut out the useless crap, unfortunately the converter dosn't support Bodog.

[badandy519]

If you're pretty sure bigjax will fold, i don't think it's really that bad of a play. I don't know if I would have gone this route in this situation, but that's just me. I have no idea what the hell Acrylo is doing calling from the button in this spot. You've got to figure you're probably a 2:1 dog here and there's no way in hell acrylo is folding. There's 300 chips in the pot, you push acrylo all in and its 320 more for him to call (so you're getting ~ 2:1 on the assumed pot) and you aren't crippled by any means if you do lose the hand.

What if acrylo pushes from the button here?? Then what's your move? Are you calling with any 2 or folding and finding a better hand later?

[KY_Ace]

I forgot to mention, I'm Jawz and the hand I'm talking about is the second one, where it's just me in the BB and ARCH in the SB. I posted the first hand to show what kind of player ARCH is.

[aislephive]

I hope you're not doing this hoping he folds, because he is going to call you with any two cards. If you feel like he has a "random hand" that K8 would be a decent favorite over a random holding, then it's an okay play. I think he has to have a somewhat better than average hand though, but that's just me. I think that without any fold equity this is a -EV play, essentially you're just gambling when it's unlikely you have him dominated and it's very possible has you dominated. With all things said, I would fold here and wait for a better spot.

[KY_Ace]

I knew he would have to call me no matter what he had because of the pot odds, but after seeing him raise with 35 I just felt like I had to make a stand with K8 or else he'd raise my BB next time too, and I'd probably have worse than K8 next time. My only other option would be to keep folding and hope the other guy busts out.

Sometimes I just keep folding hoping the other short stack busts out, especially if he's really short. I've seen it so many times though, the guy on the verge of elimination seems to win every f'n race and I'm stuck in the BB playing a 39o for my tornament life. Waiting is not a sure thing either.

[MAX]

If you were the other shortie, wouldn't you be happy if opp. played like this? Biggie's raise was not ai, so how sure are you that he doesn't have a hand? Also, if you ran the ICM, you might find that getting ai as a small favorite isn't worth it anyways, and that's if you aren't facing a real hand. I would rather be first in with any 2 and some fold equity. If you are determined to make a stand, a stop n go might gain you a small amount of fold equity -- especially if he has low cards and the flop misses him.

[Halv]

I think that this is a push/fold depending on the other shortie. If you think the other guy will play rock tight to get ITM, grab that king and push it. If not, fold it and try to camp out the other shortie or maybe get lucky and catch a more playable hand.

Edit: disclaimer signature attatched

[KY_Ace]

If you were the other shortie, wouldn't you be happy if opp. played like this? Biggie's raise was not ai, so how sure are you that he doesn't have a hand? Also, if you ran the ICM, you might find that getting ai as a small favorite isn't worth it anyways, and that's if you aren't facing a real hand. I would rather be first in with any 2 and some fold equity. If you are determined to make a stand, a stop n go might gain you a small amount of fold equity -- especially if he has low cards and the flop misses him.

I couldn't run the Stop 'n Go cuz I wouldn't be 1st to act.

I know the ICM numbers would definately be against me, and in the short term this was definately a -ve equity play, but I was taking the long term effect of folding into consideration. I couln't stop thinking about that 35 raise either. I wanted to send this bully a message.

I might have been better off folding here and moving in on the other short stacks' BB. This was a tough decision for me. K8 is not a bad hand HU. I'm flipping with 77s or lower. I'm not that big a dog vs A7 or lower kickers, I'm a slight favorite to QJ,TJ etc..

http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b...+8c%0D%0A7c+7s
http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b...+8c%0D%0Aac+7s

I had also seen him mini-raise with AK,KK and QQ, and raise big with 35.

I know the other short stack was happy to see me all in, but I'm usually the one doing the bullying and I know how it feels when the short stacks push back. I think "fuck, this guy dosn't care if he comes 4th, look what he reraised me with!!, I better stop fucking with this guy".