Early stages of a FO tournament

[Alibi]

I was reading the latest CardPlayer and Negreanu discussed a hand from a deep-stacked tourney where he raises with 87s and flops a beautiful drawing hand and then goes broke on a semibluff. (If someone could find the article online for me, I'd appreciate it. I don't really know how to navigate CardPlayer.com, sorry.)

He says later in the article:

"The next bone of contention I wanted to deal with was this: "Why would you take such risks early in the tournament?" Well, if you are a recreational player and your goal is to just last as long as possible in the tournament, you should not even play the hand in the first place. If you are trying to win the tournament and aren't embarrased about going out early, you should simply look for the correct play based on the cards you are dealt.

I do find it a little strange when people say you shouldn't play a marginally profitable situation early in a tournament, but it's OK to do so late in a tournament... by doubling up early in an event, it enables you to accumulate even more chips, as a big stack demands respect and is often given free rein to pick up chips at will by aggressively attacking the blinds."




I know this mentality is crucial to rebuy tournaments; and I know some vets here like Ripptyde are subscribers to the "get rich early or die trying" school of thought. Is this view completely irreconcilable from what I've been taught, that tight is right? Is this view better? Is it simply different? Maybe it works really well for Dan cause he's a post-flop genius?

I'm looking to start playing a lot more MTTs, and I *REALLY* want help and advice on this conflict.

[Sprayed]

I use to be tight is right for MTTs, but I started limping small pp and suited connectors early in MTTs. If I hit I would get paid off big. If I didn't hit the flop I would fold. Obviously I raised AQ+ and QQ+ big and got chips this way but I couldn't take a stack with them.

In SNGs I believe tight is right because you are trying to last to the money and then play for first when you get in the money. You will get to the money playing tight in an MTT but it won't get you close to the FT IMO.

I'm a rooky to this type of play and it has been paying off here recently.

[WildBobAA]

DN is talking about tournaments with deep stacks. Many WPT events start you with 15,000-25,000 chips with the blinds at 25/50. The WPT championship starts you with 50,000 chips.

This is where the implied odds of suited connectors come in. Let's say someone makes a standard 3x or 4x raise PF with a big pair. You have 78s. In a tournament with this deep structure, you should call b/c if you hit the flop, there's a chance you can win a ridiculous amount of chips.

In the MTTs you'd be playing (ones on PS) you only start with 1,500 chips and you won't be getting the implied odds to call raises with suited connectors. Tight is definatly right in those tournaments.

Basically you're both right, it's just you and DN are talking about different types of tournaments.

[Sprayed]

DN is talking about tournaments with deep stacks. Many WPT events start you with 15,000-25,000 chips with the blinds at 25/50. The WPT championship starts you with 50,000 chips.

This is where the implied odds of suited connectors come in. Let's say someone makes a standard 3x or 4x raise PF with a big pair. You have 78s. In a tournament with this deep structure, you should call b/c if you hit the flop, there's a chance you can win a ridiculous amount of chips.

In the MTTs you'd be playing (ones on PS) you only start with 1,500 chips and you won't be getting the implied odds to call raises with suited connectors. Tight is definatly right in those tournaments.

Basically you're both right, it's just you and DN are talking about different types of tournaments.

I have spoken to a couple of great players that are members to this site that swear to the suited connectors and pp play early in an MTT tourney. This is the argument of conservator or accumulator.

[Miffed22001]

I dont like the double or bust theory.
Im not super tight, but given the chance to play in lp with T8s and other stuff i will, especialy in raised pots where i'll be one of three going to the flop.
Simply i know what people will raise with so i call with the opposite. Im looking then to push people around when i know they havent flopped anything. Even something so simple as making a reraise against a tagg on a Kxx board when im pretty sure they have AQ. Such plays as this, dominated by the ability to put someone on something post flop is what has begun to influence my play especially early on or when i have enough of a stack to play poker. SO while i only raise the goods and am quite happy to lay down or check post flop if i have nothing rather than throw chips on a bluff if im playing against a raise its totally the opposite.
So im not a fan of flopping a draw and getting it all in, i have enough discipline i think to fold for bad odds.
But definalty the biggest improvement in my game recently has been preflop hand selection and post flop selective aggression. Tight is ok, but in lp get to see those flops.

[A10Chief]

I'm with you, Miffed. I have been playing a lot more drawing hands lately and I believe that is the only way you can seriously contend in large MTTs. If you sit around waiting for monsters you will be disappointed most of the time.