QQ hand

[skier_5]

No reads, about 5 minutes in.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

SB (t1380)
Hero (t1490)
UTG (t120)
UTG+1 (t2130)
MP1 (t3020)
MP2 (t1460)
MP3 (t2820)
CO (t1610)
Button (t2480)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qh, Qd.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t180, MP1 calls t180, 3 folds, Button calls t180, 1 fold, Hero ???

[WildBobAA]

This is a situation where I think calling is ok. I'd push any non-A or K flop. If one of them has AA or KK oh well.

[drmcboy]

push pre flop or call, push safe flop both +EV IMO.

Push pre flop has more varience but I think more EV too. You win the pot against something like an AT pre flop (assuming AT folds) that you will lose on the A high flop.

Also AK is unlikely IMO, so if you get called on the push you'll either be 70/30+.... or dead to AA/KK, but que sara. Original raiser is the only one who may have AK and be willing to call AI with it.

[skier_5]

Doesn't calling and pushing the flop seem like a perfect strategy to fold everything that we beat? Against 4 opponents how often is a non A, non K flop going to give us the best hand, or the best hand with someone that is willing to go to the felt with a draw?

I Think several things happen if we call

1) A bad flop with an A or K or a very draw heavy board with lots of action, we fold and find a better spot later - T170
2) We get a good flop, not too heavy action. We go broke to AA, KK anyways, someone may have outflopped us, or we might win a bet or two, or sometimes we get all in with the best hand, so either bust or +T1000?
3) We flop a set and win a ton of chips from AA, KK, two pair hands, lower sets + T3000?

We survive more often when the flop comes bad than if we pushed though. The idea behind the call is to give up an +EV situation so we can make more wagers later at a greater +Ev situation right?

I agree, I think that pushing has a higher variance, but I think it may be more Ev too. I think that at least 20% of the time we pick up the pot right there. I doubt any of our callers are calling our push. +T560

Sometimes we'll find ourselves dead to AA, KK, but I think we will see AK, JJ, TT sometimes too, maybe even AQ or AJ judging by the size of the preflop raise. I think that we are probably 60%+ to win if we are called and we extract a maximum from an unimproved AK - though we lose the maximum as well.

Those are my thoughts on the hand and repsonse. Please post your thoughts on my thoughts.

[drmcboy]

don't forget it's a massive pot pre flop. If the flop comes rags, you probably can get called on your push by any PP. Anyone who flops a draw probably gets the right price to try and chase it, but it they may make a mistake and fold. Given pot size it might be tough for someon to fold AJ on a QJrag flop.