kq sb late into mtt

[ripjohngotti]

ok my stack was around 50k, blinds are 3/6k at this point 48 or so left, 40 make money.

kq in sb one limper i just call

flop is x/x/q with 2 diamons...

i bet out 10k bb calls, limp folds..

turn is a king of diamonds, i check call his all in he shows 10/6 of diamonds..

NOw someone is tellin me i shoulda raise preflop with kq. is that even imaginable with close to being in the money and acting outa position?i posted somewhere on here with aq and most just limp.

i also posted this over at tb forum, http://totalbluff.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8205


Now i just wanted to keep pot small and who knows what that other limpers have it i raise and my shit doesn't hit, i bet out itll cost me so much money.

they tell me to raise with kq in sb.

opinions?

[SteveO]

The mistake was not pre-flop so much as post flop.

Move in when you hit top pair on the flop. He may very well still chase even if you move in but at least make him pay.

You had less than 10bb so you were in danger zone. You can either sit back and try to coast into money or you can play aggressive.

If you are coasting then flat call is fine and hope to hit the flop which you did.

OTOH, You have a shortish stack but still have some power. If you are going to play KQ in this particular situation then just move in pre-flop, and pick up the BB and the limp.

At that stage of the tourny you are not playing starting hands so much you are playing psychology, position and praying to catch a piece of the flops you do see.

[SteveO]

I re-read the post and you wanted a reason. And BTW you are not "raising" you are moving AI in this spot because any meaningful raise commits you to the pot anyway.

1. Limper has not shown much strength and is not in love with his hand, unless he is trapping with AA or KK.

2. You are on a short stack but not too short. Put pressure on the BB and the limper to fold. Being the first one to push AI gives you some fold equity.

3. Even if they do call, you will likely be a coin flip against a small PP. If you double here you will have some ammo to try to hit the final table.

[zenbitz]

Also, SB is worst position post flop - be agressive here or fold unless you flop a monster (i.e., NOT TPGK)

[Lukie]

all-in preflop

[ripjohngotti]

all-in preflop

no way the idoit might have 88 99 77 and call i bust out of tourney on toss up. Maybe a raise, but i was told to keep pots small with marginal hands and against these idiots..

[JeffreyGB]

"In order to live, you must be willing to die."

I'm not saying that I like the push preflop (I think it's marginal either way, and could make a case for a standard raise even), but a reoccurring theme in several of your posts is keeping the pot small to stay safe. Stay safe by not playing very many hands that will lose you money. When you play a hand, play it aggressively - people fold more. Be willing to get all-in when you're the favorite. You'll go out on some bad beats, but you'll also get a stack.

[zenbitz]

all-in preflop

no way the idoit might have 88 99 77 and call i bust out of tourney on toss up. Maybe a raise, but i was told to keep pots small with marginal hands and against these idiots..

He's limping 77-99???? With M=10???? I would be way more worried about a loose limp/call with AX, you are actually a 3:2 dog here.

I am a little scared by the open limp so close to ITM... I could see folding KQ here, but raising is also good. Calling is weak. You are OOP and destroyed by KK/QQ/AA/AK/AQ if villain is trapping.

[JeffreyGB]

Calling is weak. You are OOP and destroyed by KK/QQ/AA/AK/AQ if villain is trapping.

With the odds he's getting, calling isn't that bad a play (I could make an argument for doing it with any two connectors/broadway/). Hard for it to be when you're getting 5:1 on your money. Even if your opponent shows you QQ/AQ/AK face up, it's a profitable call if you can assume the postflop works out (which obviously it won't). The number of times that someone's limping one of the five hands that destroy you rather than a hand you're ahead off or 40/60 with is very small. In most low buy-in tourneys, I'm starting to assume a limp is moderate weakness without a read (and I use every chance I get to make a read one way or another). I'd expect he's 40/60 against the limper preflop, and way ahead on the flop.

I probably put my stack in on the flop.

[JeffreyGB]

I probably put my stack in on the flop.

Rereading the hand...45k behind; pot of 18k. With an M of 5. I'm pushing here with TPGK, especially on a draw heavy board.

He's folding his draw to a big bet this close to the money almost every time. Even when he doesn't, you don't mind horribly, as it doubles you up over 2/3 the time.

[lambchopdc]

all-in preflop

no way the idoit might have 88 99 77 and call i bust out of tourney on toss up. Maybe a raise, but i was told to keep pots small with marginal hands and against these idiots..

Ok...here is your fundamental problem....did u really really really sign up for an MTT to "make the money"??? If making the money actually means anything to you, you are playing way outside your bankroll. If you want to win tourneys you need to be ultra-aggressive on the bubble. Your fear of him calling you tells me you are way too weak-tight. If you expect to win an MTT ever, grow some balls...period. Push this preflop without even thinking. BTW....i'm the aggressive idiot raising your blinds 5 times an orbit on the bubble, nice to meet you.

[zenbitz]

JeffreyGB -

Making pot odds calls OOP with M=5 is not particularly solid play. Justifiable perhaps.
Actually.... you could stop-in-go non A-high flop. You'd still lose all you cheeep here, but que sera.

[JeffreyGB]

JeffreyGB -

Making pot odds calls OOP with M=5 is not particularly solid play. Justifiable perhaps.
Actually.... you could stop-in-go non A-high flop. You'd still lose all you cheeep here, but que sera.

I'll agree with that. But only to the point of saying it makes calling with any two a bad play. That said, I don't find a fold here, and I'm not likely to push with a limper in front without a read. I'd much rather only push the 33% of the flops I hit. The odds are just another factor that add to my liking this play.