AJs 200NL

[SmackinYaUp]

My image is laggy, but I havent been at the table for too terribly long. What do you think? What do you think about preflop and each street? Was this just a fishy play? PF it was $8 into a $20 pot, so combining that with my image, i called.

Texas Hold'em $2-$2 NL (real money), #1,638,280,910
Table Funafuti, 27 Dec 2005 4:00 PM ET
Seat 2: Pellem ($235.20 in chips)
Seat 3: SlappinYaUp ($190 in chips)
Seat 6: Sansrom ($399.20 in chips)
Seat 9: goldb79160 ($327.60 in chips)
Seat 10: Scared_Money ($117 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Sansrom posts blind ($1), goldb79160 posts blind ($2).

PRE-FLOP

SlappinYaUp gets [ AD,JD ]

Scared_Money folds, Pellem folds, SlappinYaUp bets $6, Sansrom folds, goldb79160 bets $12, SlappinYaUp calls $8.

FLOP [board cards AS,10D,KC ]
goldb79160 bets $20, SlappinYaUp calls $20.

TURN [board cards AS,10D,KC,8S ]
goldb79160 bets $20, SlappinYaUp calls $20.

RIVER [board cards AS,10D,KC,8S,QD ]
goldb79160 checks, SlappinYaUp bets $136 and is all-in, goldb79160 calls $136.

[WildBobAA]

I think you're crushed on the flop and you caught a lucky river.

I like the river bet though. I'm guessing he made a bad call with AK, AQ or a set.

[Fnord]

I like every street.

[Miffed22001]

preflop yes
flop not sure, i want to press my raise button here and find a fold rather than a cold call, although if you considered position here then ill take the call.
turn 20 again? i think im finding something here rather than a call
river: oh yes!

[Pingviini]

This is a toughie, and not a rare one. Those small bets on turn could mean a lot of things, a set, two pair, a draw. I just dont really see me pushing on river but rather making a value bet of 1/2 the pot or so. But your push does make it look like a steal which he might call (and did here) with a strong hand like top 2 or a set..

One other possiblity is minraising him on turn hoping for a free SD. That might prevent him for betting a hand better than yours saving you money..

[dalecooper]

Any read on him (other than his probable awareness of your table image)? The flop is a dangerous playground full of rusty swings and slides, and it seems like you may have made a bad call there. Turn and river are automatic AFAIC. 6-max is very read-oriented, esp. when you call a re-raise and then have a flop like this one; I much prefer to have a feel for his specific range of hands before making that flop call. Consider that if you knew for sure you were drawing to just the straight or backdoor flush, that's an atrocious odds call and there's not near enough money in your respective stacks to make up for it if you hit. But if you think he might have re-raised you with a wide assortment of hands, I can make a good case for it. The turn slowdown is interesting after his heavy flop bet - makes me wonder if he had QQ, AQ, or something like that.

[alias2211]

hey smakin-

did u consider reraising on the flop there? u were in position, and after that PFR by the out of position opp, i would really like to see where i'm at there with that flop. lots of opportunity for 2pr there and your hand has a lot of work to do to improve past that. i don't have any reads to work with obviously, but since the best thing about your hand at the flop is your position and not your hand, i would put that to work for you. that may well mean that he reraises over the top back at you, but then at least you know you should get going...

[Muxy]

I like your play.

I love that river and the play on that river.

[dalecooper]

hey smakin-

did u consider reraising on the flop there? u were in position, and after that PFR by the out of position opp, i would really like to see where i'm at there with that flop. lots of opportunity for 2pr there and your hand has a lot of work to do to improve past that.

At higher stakes it's very common to call with a hand that may be best instead of immediately trying to "find out where you're at." This is especially true if you have a reasonable number (4+) of outs you're pretty sure are clean even if you're behind at the moment. You cultivate multiple ways to win the hand, you end up stymieing aggressive play from your opponent (which is very common at this level), and you maximize your positional advantage. The weirder that board gets, the more likely it is that your opponent will slow down with most hands. On that flop a lot of hands that pre-flop raise are going to continuation bet, and that includes pocket pairs lower than TT, even. If you raise to find out where you are, you may get re-raised from an opponent who smells a rat and knows he can easily rep AA/KK/AK/TT, even QJ, on that scary-ass board. A smooth call can be much more disturbing to him if he doesn't have one of the above hands.

[SmackinYaUp]

He ended up having AK so looking back I was drawing at an inside straight the whole time.

[Fnord]

He ended up having AK so looking back I was drawing at an inside straight the whole time.

...and didn't make a silly raise to "see where you're at" which would have cost you MORE money (and perhaps taken away your 4 outs.) Then you won the max when you sucked out.

You had the sucker end of it and the only way you could have played it better was having a strong enough read to put him on a big hand here.

[SmackinYaUp]

Well I apreciate that fnord. At the time I knew I had to go allin on the river to payoff those bad odds I may have just drawn against.

[twosevoff]

He ended up having AK so looking back I was drawing at an inside straight the whole time.

...and didn't make a silly raise to "see where you're at" which would have cost you MORE money (and perhaps taken away your 4 outs.) Then you won the max when you sucked out.

You had the sucker end of it and the only way you could have played it better was having a strong enough read to put him on a big hand here.

Co-sign. Very well played.

[alias2211]

At higher stakes it's very common to call with a hand that may be best instead of immediately trying to "find out where you're at." This is especially true if you have a reasonable number (4+) of outs you're pretty sure are clean even if you're behind at the moment.

nice post dale. i agree with the premise of the above statement. that sort of play is especially applicable when you have position like that and you spike your ace, when someone raises big out of early position heads up on the flop. but with this particular flop, there is a lot of opportunity for 2 pr or worse given the PFR by the BB. don't get me wrong, i do like the rest of the hand after the flop, A LOT. very well played once he decided to go down that road. but given that board and preflop activity he was most likely way behind.

smakin must have had a hunch that he could take the guy downtown when he made his hand. it's not a valuable play against an opp that can get away from top two, so that has to be a factor in determining to make that play.

nice work smakin. please tell us that not only did you stack him here but put him on tilt and got another stack from his tilted ass

[alias2211]

here is a hand that is similar to the one smakin posted in one important way: i am basically 'playing catch' instead of reraising to 'see where i'm at.' but in this case, i am out of position. it can be a good play if done right and you're willing to rep a hand at the end, or if you really think your TPGK is best. the flop was great for this type of play, because it allowed me to make a move at the pot on the end in early position.

i was playing heads up against him for only about 10 hands after the table fell apart. the only real difference was that he raised PF and i just cold called but this was heads up so that is not out of the ordinary. no real strong reads but he didn't strike me as a particularly good or weak player either way. i felt like he could have had a 10, but after the hand he said he had 1010, which i'm not sure if i believe he would have folded, but i'll never know for sure.

Hand #10101770-43295 at West Chester (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 29/Dec/05 11:30:15

alias2211 is at seat 1 with $564.30.
Kikke is at seat 4 with $414.10.
The button is at seat 4.

Kikke posts the small blind of $2.
alias2211 posts the big blind of $4.

alias2211 Tc Kh
Kikke: -- --

Pre-flop:

Kikke raises to $12. alias2211 calls.

Flop (board: 8c 9h Th):

alias2211 checks. Kikke bets $24. alias2211
calls.

Turn (board: 8c 9h Th 2c):

alias2211 checks. Kikke bets $72. alias2211
calls.

River (board: 8c 9h Th 2c 7d):

alias2211 bets $125. Kikke folds. alias2211 is
returned $125 (uncalled).



Hand #10101770-43295 Summary:

$.50 is raked from a pot of $216.
alias2211 wins $215.50.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[SmackinYaUp]

Those are some interesting ideas you guys mention. Yea, at the time, I didn't think there was a whole lot a raise could accomplish. A minraise is weak, a 3x raise just hurts too much, so I called.

I need to post more hands like I used to. I am the only person I know who can sit at 4 100NL tables and raise 60% of all starting hands and build up stacks of 500, 400, 200, 200 but still only be up $330 after 4 hours. This is becoming pretty common. Sure its cool to have huge stacks, but damn...only $330 to show for it? Anyone else ever get like that?

[Zinnsoldaten]

Anyone else ever get like that?

Oh yes.

[alias2211]

here is another example of a decent hand 'playing catch', but then tossing out a blocking bet when the scary river comes. i do believe he had a J the whole time but prob like j10 or something he didn't love, definitely not two pair because he would have bet harder on turn i think. this time i showed because i knew he was capable of getting steamed with me but he left the table shortly thereafter

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #10101907-33492 at Onalaska (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 29/Dec/05 19:36:56

tellatuby is at seat 0 with $1002.50.
pokarman is at seat 1 with $1226.25.
PaulG37 is at seat 2 with $2410.
vortex 101 is at seat 3 with $513.25.
alias2211 is at seat 4 with $1063.
moknee is at seat 5 with $876.
The button is at seat 3.

chuckbobuck posts the small blind of $5.
moknee posts the big blind of $10.

tellatuby: -- --
pokarman: -- --
PaulG37: -- --
vortex 101: -- --
alias2211: 9c 9h
moknee: -- --

Pre-flop:

tellatuby calls. pokarman raises to $45. PaulG37
calls. vortex 101 folds. alias2211 calls.
moknee folds. tellatuby calls.

Flop (board: Jd 5s 3c):

alias2211 checks. tellatuby bets $35. pokarman
calls. PaulG37 folds. alias2211 calls.

Turn (board: Jd 5s 3c 4h):

alias2211 checks. tellatuby bets $55. pokarman
folds. alias2211 calls.

River (board: Jd 5s 3c 4h 6s):

alias2211 bets $125. tellatuby folds. chuckbobuck
is returned $125 (uncalled).

alias2211 opts to show 9c 9h.
alias2211 has 9c 9h Jd 5s 6s: a pair of nines.


Hand #10101907-33492 Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $405.
alias2211 wins $402.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[dsaxton]

I'd consider folding preflop, but after calling preflop, I'd fold on the flop. In calling a preflop reraise with A-J suited, I'm pretty much hoping to flop a flush draw, a straight or trip jacks, otherwise I'm usually mucking my hand. I don't think your image plays much into this, as not many $200 NL 6-max players play back at aggressive players without a hand. You can expect most players at this level to have a genuine hand 95% of the time here, even given these psychological dynamics.

The river play is questionable. Did you have reason to think this guy was capable of calling all-in without the straight? Even if you've been bluffing a lot, this is a fairly obvious "fake bluff." I'd make a bet big enough to look like a bluff, but still small enough for him to call. I'd say you got lucky twice on the river.

[r8ed]

Why did that guy slow down on the turn? I think that was his downfall. Would you call full pot there?

[Bmxicle]

I only like preflop and the river, the only hands i see you beating are jj and qq on that flop. Since i would normally just fold i wouldn't get to the turn, but that small turn bet is weak and i would consider calling that. Since you have no read, even if you are liberal with the hand ranges (TT-AA AQ, AK).

[zenbitz]

I'd consider folding preflop, but after calling preflop, I'd fold on the flop. In calling a preflop reraise with A-J suited, I'm pretty much hoping to flop a flush draw, a straight or trip jacks, otherwise I'm usually mucking my hand.

I'm a short handed novice, but I thought fold pre-flop to a re-raise as well. What about AJo? AQo?

Oh my bad. I thought he cold called it and 3rd party originally raised. Question about off suit hands still applies.

[spino1i]

here is another example of a decent hand 'playing catch', but then tossing out a blocking bet when the scary river comes. i do believe he had a J the whole time but prob like j10 or something he didn't love, definitely not two pair because he would have bet harder on turn i think. this time i showed because i knew he was capable of getting steamed with me but he left the table shortly thereafter

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #10101907-33492 at Onalaska (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 29/Dec/05 19:36:56

tellatuby is at seat 0 with $1002.50.
pokarman is at seat 1 with $1226.25.
PaulG37 is at seat 2 with $2410.
vortex 101 is at seat 3 with $513.25.
alias2211 is at seat 4 with $1063.
moknee is at seat 5 with $876.
The button is at seat 3.

chuckbobuck posts the small blind of $5.
moknee posts the big blind of $10.

tellatuby: -- --
pokarman: -- --
PaulG37: -- --
vortex 101: -- --
alias2211: 9c 9h
moknee: -- --

Pre-flop:

tellatuby calls. pokarman raises to $45. PaulG37
calls. vortex 101 folds. alias2211 calls.
moknee folds. tellatuby calls.

----------------------------------------------------------------

alias2211 = chuckbobuck

your secret is out!!!

[alias2211]

alias2211 = chuckbobuck

your secret is out!!!

lol, no secret, just missed that one. i'm also elliebobellie and fannybobanny on UB, in addition to chuckbobuck, if you care i hate trying to decipher HH usernames from FTR vs. their poker room username, so i replace them all w/ my FTR one for reading ease. i should just get into the habit of using a converter, but meh, think i posted this one from my bro's computer and didn't have my bookmarks available...

fyi, if any of you have any suggestions for other variants on the 'bobuck' series i'm interested in hearing them. since UB won't just let me change my goddamn username like they should, i like creating many, many new accounts for them to manage.

i would also like to add some sort of new one like St33l3rs2006beeyatches!!! if possible. but i'll keep you all posted when i do...