What's he got?

[Warpe]

Only at the table for a few orbits, but opp has been in almost every hand...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Warpe (t2525)
MP1 (t1440)
MP2 (t2090)
MP3 (t3350)
CO (t2465)
Button (t3115)
SB (t2075)
BB (t1200)
UTG (t2030)

Preflop: Warpe is UTG+1 with J, T.
1 fold, Warpe calls t100, 4 folds, Button raises to t200, 2 folds, Warpe calls t100.

Flop: (t550) 4, T, Q (2 players)
Warpe checks, Button bets t100, Warpe calls t100.

Turn: (t750) J (2 players)
Warpe checks, Button bets t200, Warpe raises to t600, Button calls t400.

River: (t1950) Q (2 players)
Warpe checks, Button bets t500, Warpe ???

[konahead]

AQ

[stak14]

I don't like to limp jack-ten offsuit in EP, i can't see much good ever coming out of it. I would fold preflop.

[Warpe]

AQ

You'd think so, or KQ, QT...

I knew he had a piece of it but given the hands I'd seen previously, I was willing to bet he had junk. If he turned over a Q, well, my bad.

I called and he turned over 8To. Got a "****" in the chat.

He busted a few hands later after going all-in with A9o on an ace high flop.

Edit: It was the min bet on the flop that made me think he didn't have it. His usual line was to overbet when he had the top pair (several times with a very weak kicker), and check/min bet when he had bottom/middle.

[Warpe]

I don't like to limp jack-ten offsuit in EP, i can't see much good ever coming out of it. I would fold preflop.

Whether I limp or fold from this position depends on how aggressive the table is. If I'm at a passive table then I play it.

[AHiltz]

YOU BEAT [/Layne Flack]

[Aplomado]

I called and he turned over 8To. Got a "****" in the chat.

lmfao

What goes through these people's minds?

[TLR]

If he is loose he can have pretty much anything preflop

From his play it seems that he got some part of the flop

I would fold preflop, but the way the hand evolved I would push the turn insead of reraising, you have a nice but vonerable hand, you are probably ahead and the pot is big enough to take it there

[skorpeo]

I would have folded pre-flop.

[zenbitz]

AQ

Edit: It was the min bet on the flop that made me think he didn't have it. His usual line was to overbet when he had the top pair (several times with a very weak kicker), and check/min bet when he had bottom/middle.

That was the last thing I thought - TP. that flop bet is either
a) a total whiff
b) a draw
c) a set (or flopped straight or flush... which isn't possible)
d) MAYBE an overpair... AA.

It's either weakness or trickery. I thought maybe AK.. but your check on the river makes it impossible to tell what he has, other than "somthin'" (because he called the turn raise).

Tough river call since your two pair got counterfieted. BUT from the above, you were were either way ahead or way behind.

[GatorJH]

I don't like to limp jack-ten offsuit in EP, i can't see much good ever coming out of it. I would fold preflop.

Whether I limp or fold from this position depends on how aggressive the table is. If I'm at a passive table then I play it.

you mentioned at the top of this post that "Only at the table for a few orbits, but opp has been in almost every hand... ".

You already know that there was on aggressive player behind you and it seems lik e you haven't been at the table long enough to get a good enough read to limp in pre-flop.

Additionally, I have learned that with aggressive players I have to take the lead in the betting to really find out where I am in the hand.

Finally, with how the betting went I would guess that you are ahead and would call his bet on the river.

[Warpe]

It's either weakness or trickery. I thought maybe AK.. but your check on the river makes it impossible to tell what he has, other than "somthin'" (because he called the turn raise).

Tough river call since your two pair got counterfieted. BUT from the above, you were were either way ahead or way behind.

I'd be lying if I said the Q on the river didn't gave me pause for a moment. So I figured the cheapest way to a showdown was check/call. If he pushed then I was prepared to think he had it and lay my hand down, but he made it callable.

[Warpe]

I don't like to limp jack-ten offsuit in EP, i can't see much good ever coming out of it. I would fold preflop.

Whether I limp or fold from this position depends on how aggressive the table is. If I'm at a passive table then I play it.

you mentioned at the top of this post that "Only at the table for a few orbits, but opp has been in almost every hand... ".

You already know that there was on aggressive player behind you and it seems lik e you haven't been at the table long enough to get a good enough read to limp in pre-flop.

Additionally, I have learned that with aggressive players I have to take the lead in the betting to really find out where I am in the hand.

Finally, with how the betting went I would guess that you are ahead and would call his bet on the river.

By "aggressive table" I mean more than one agg player. The fact that he had been in a lot of hands gave me a chance to scope him out pretty quickly, and get a good idea of his range, which was just about anything. He was from the "any two cards can win" school, aka: donk. If he caught a piece of the flop he stayed in. Once I knew that, then calling a raise from him preflop with JTo was a no-brainer for me.

I know a lot of people disagree with playing this hand from this position, but in SnG/MTT play my attitude is that you shouldn't be throwing away perfectly good starting hands just because you're in the wrong seat. You have a limited number of orbits, limited number of hands, so you can't be waiting for AA to drop in your lap. Play sub-optimal starting hands IF the table conditions are right. IMO, some players put too much emphasis on the importance of position, and position can be changed. Check, if you don't want to lead out. Other than my blinds call, note who was first to act on every street in this hand.

Also, I play 1500 chippers on PS. An 800 chipper on PP is a completely different story (and why I don't play them).

[zenbitz]

blinds way too big for limping anything, let alone JTo.
Maybe in a 3+table where setting up a limp/rr with KK/AA would come in handy, but a 1 table you are not really likely to get either once let alone twice, so why set it up?

Limping JTo EP is fine with like M > 20. Implied odds baby.

Otherwise you are either:
1) only continuing with great draws/2pair
2) going to have kicker trouble.

[gabe]

warpe, even if the table if passive, the blinds are too big to be limping, ESPECIALLY out of position. i can see if you are on button and 5 people in front of you call, but you are the first to enter the pot.

[Warpe]

Additionally, I have learned that with aggressive players I have to take the lead in the betting to really find out where I am in the hand.

As usual, I think it depends...I've been reading aokrongly's posts about counterplay strategy quite a bit and, while it's designed for ring, it does have some limited application in tourney play, imho. Leading out is paying for information. Why pay, when you can get what you need for free? When I can, I like to let agg players define their hands for me and get them more committed to the hand...then come over the top when I think I'm ahead, or fold if I think I'm behind. Net result is more chips in my stack when I decide to fold ('cause I haven't paid anything), and usually more when I take down the pot. What I don't like to do is donk off chips needlessly and give the opp information about my hand before I get information about his if I don't need to. Yes, you definitely need to lead out sometimes. But look at what you expect to gain from the exercise before you do.

This is just my opinion. But it works for me.

[GatorJH]

Additionally, I have learned that with aggressive players I have to take the lead in the betting to really find out where I am in the hand.

As usual, I think it depends...I've been reading aokrongly's posts about counterplay strategy quite a bit and, while it's designed for ring, it does have some limited application in tourney play, imho. Leading out is paying for information. Why pay, when you can get what you need for free? When I can, I like to let agg players define their hands for me and get them more committed to the hand...then come over the top when I think I'm ahead, or fold if I think I'm behind. Net result is more chips in my stack when I decide to fold ('cause I haven't paid anything), and usually more when I take down the pot. What I don't like to do is donk off chips needlessly and give the opp information about my hand before I get information about his if I don't need to. Yes, you definitely need to lead out sometimes. But look at what you expect to gain from the exercise before you do.

This is just my opinion. But it works for me.

That is interesting. How do you define your hand when you don't take the lead here? Is it totally read dependent as you mentioned earlier that he either bet small on draws and big on made hands. I may have to try that as those betting patterns are pretty consistent with donks who are aggressive.

[Warpe]

blinds way too big for limping anything.

the blinds are too big to be limping, ESPECIALLY out of position.

Okay, agreed on that point...

Edit:...to a point. As a general rule that is true. But at this table, the only consistent raiser for a few orbits was the player who turned out to be my opp in the hand. Like I said, I take the gamble that I won't be raised if the table is very passive, and this one was.