10+1. 99. Playing PPs for a profit without hitting a set.

[vqc]

A classic example.

***** Hand History for Game 3436228293 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:19548183 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, January 25, 19:26:28 EDT 2006
Table Table 67071 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: chripok ( $785 )
Seat 2: denhamhead ( $865 )
Seat 3: gambler352 ( $755 )
Seat 4: Sweepback ( $800 )
Seat 5: cocotester ( $770 )
Seat 6: Severance22 ( $670 )
Seat 7: eMwolB321 ( $720 )
Seat 8: TheBoneHer ( $775 )
Seat 9: ianhowe111 ( $985 )
Seat 10: floyd_1977 ( $875 )
Trny:19548183 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 9c 9d ]
>You have options at Table 67323 Table!.
chripok folds.
denhamhead raises [30].
gambler352 folds.
Sweepback folds.
cocotester folds.
Severance22 folds.
eMwolB321 folds.
TheBoneHer calls [30].
ianhowe111 folds.
floyd_1977 calls [15].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 5d, 6h ]
floyd_1977 checks.
>You have options at Table 67323 Table!.
denhamhead checks.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
floyd_1977 checks.
denhamhead checks.
>You have options at Table 67323 Table!.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 4s ]
floyd_1977 bets [60].
denhamhead folds.
TheBoneHer calls [60].

[Blinky]

VQC, this is something that I'm struggling with (check HE HH forum).

However, I think in this case you can
a) bet the plop, esp since it's checked to you and J-high
b) bet the turn! the overcard paired, preflop raiser has checked twice etc etc etc.

[TLR]

I would bet the flop to try to figure out where I stand

[Andy Holt]

I would bet the flop to try to figure out where I stand

Same here. If I'm not betting the flop, then I'm at least raising somewhere, if not the turn then the river for value. Nice hand though, since it's the first level I probably play it the same.

[vqc]

I would bet the flop to try to figure out where I stand

Same here. If I'm not betting the flop, then I'm at least raising somewhere, if not the turn then the river for value. Nice hand though, since it's the first level I probably play it the same.

i should remove the "classic example" from my OP, maybe this wasnt that classic. who knows, i mightve not even won the hand =P.

[Andy Holt]

i should remove the "classic example" from my OP, maybe this wasnt that classic. who knows, i mightve not even won the hand =P.

lol. Well this IS a classic example of sticking around when you're pretty sure you've got the best hand even though you were playing the nines for a set. I think it should stay.

[crikreef]

continuing our discussion for all to see and comment on....

I would have bet the turn with 90+ chips. VQC says its too wasteful and would bet 2/3 pot. I say that pot odds are easily disregarded at low limit SNG and thus stick to my 90+ chip bet. VQC says 60 chips still makes them pay for their mistake of calling with flush draw and conserves chips which is most important for early level in SNG. I don't think it is strong enough and you should make them pay more.

So who's the donk?

[vqc]

continuing our discussion for all to see and comment on....

I would have bet the turn with 90+ chips. VQC says its too wasteful and would bet 2/3 pot. I say that pot odds are easily disregarded at low limit SNG and thus stick to my 90+ chip bet. VQC says 60 chips still makes them pay for their mistake of calling with flush draw and conserves chips which is most important for early level in SNG. I don't think it is strong enough and you should make them pay more.

So who's the donk?

u are of course =D.

[Andy Holt]

continuing our discussion for all to see and comment on....

I would have bet the turn with 90+ chips. VQC says its too wasteful and would bet 2/3 pot. I say that pot odds are easily disregarded at low limit SNG and thus stick to my 90+ chip bet. VQC says 60 chips still makes them pay for their mistake of calling with flush draw and conserves chips which is most important for early level in SNG. I don't think it is strong enough and you should make them pay more.

So who's the donk?

First and foremost, pot odds are important at all levels.

If your opp is getting REALLY bad odds and folds, you miss out on value if you had the best hand. If your opp is getting SLIGHTLY bad odds and calls, you win.

[vqc]

continuing our discussion for all to see and comment on....

I would have bet the turn with 90+ chips. VQC says its too wasteful and would bet 2/3 pot. I say that pot odds are easily disregarded at low limit SNG and thus stick to my 90+ chip bet. VQC says 60 chips still makes them pay for their mistake of calling with flush draw and conserves chips which is most important for early level in SNG. I don't think it is strong enough and you should make them pay more.

So who's the donk?

First and foremost, pot odds are important at all levels.

If your opp is getting REALLY bad odds and folds, you miss out on value if you had the best hand. If your opp is getting SLIGHTLY bad odds and calls, you win.

donkreef is saying that other people disregard pot odds and call based on chip count and not pot ratio.

[crikreef]

donkreef is saying that other people disregard pot odds and call based on chip count and not pot ratio.

only at low limit SNG with that small an amount of chips to call. I dont think most inexperienced players would think about pot odds when there is such a small amount to be lost.

[Halv]

Plus, many of them think "if I make my flush/straight/whatever I will take his entire stack and be safe for the rest of the tournie", not realising that if the scare card comes and huge bets are being made, their opponents A: have the better flush/straight/whatever, B: will get out of the hand.

In other words they value implied odds too much.