Another hand

[chardrian]

Game #1243624362 - Tournament $80,000 R&A - 400/800 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2006/01/26-22:27:19.4 (CST)
Table "$80,000 R&A 52" (MTT) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: chardrian (7,300 in chips)
Seat 2: Reactrix (16,450 in chips)
Seat 3: Clark Kent22 (6,192 in chips)
Seat 4: lovekayloo (27,630 in chips)
Seat 5: 03NASCAR08 (38,841 in chips)
Seat 6: agcpa (12,350 in chips)
Seat 7: tourney1974 (18,533 in chips)
Seat 8: JJProdigy (16,100 in chips)
Seat 9: beanmo (9,185 in chips)
Seat 10: Pipcelot (6,695 in chips)
Reactrix: Ante (50)
Clark Kent22: Ante (50)
lovekayloo: Ante (50)
03NASCAR08: Ante (50)
agcpa : Ante (50)
tourney1974: Ante (50)
JJProdigy: Ante (50)
beanmo : Ante (50)
Pipcelot: Ante (50)
chardrian: Ante (50)
Pipcelot: Post Small Blind (400)
chardrian: Post Big Blind (800)
Dealing...
Dealt to chardrian [ As ]
Dealt to chardrian [ 2c ]
Reactrix: Fold
Clark Kent22: Call (800)
lovekayloo: Fold
03NASCAR08: Fold
agcpa : Fold
tourney1974: Call (800)
JJProdigy: Fold
beanmo : Call (800)
Pipcelot: Call (400)
chardrian??

[THaC]

A lot of limpers... If you haven't seen them limping monsters all tourney, I'd shove it and hope they aren't limping KK/QQ. Your stack is really short, and this could be a good spot to gain almost 4k

[Easy17]

check it and fold to any flop other than 2pair +

4 limpers.. chances are someones limping a weak ace, which is gonna have you dominated.

[Miffed22001]

2 lines of thought
1. ep limp from a stack with less than 10bbs, plus 11bbs stack limps in lp. This is happening with another shorty on the big blind, you. Its either stupid play or clever play them. I think its a pure 50/50. If ep opp is a donk i push, i think everyone else goes away including donk. If he isnt then i think i check, its plausible he has a monster or a pp and may very well call you even oop due to his stack and the fact you could just about push any two looking at this situation
2. You think nobody can call if you push, big stack shows weakness limping after a limper and cant donk off half his stack unless he has something. Do the shorty's really wanna gambOOl after limping.
My play is dependant on the quality of ep limper. If hes a donk/standard i push if hes good i check.

4 limpers.. chances are someones limping a weak ace, which is gonna have you dominated

No one raised, which suggests A9 or less. At this stage AJ in ep(or any position here) is a raise not a limp. Then on top of that, no stack can call here with impunity, we have enuf of a stack to hurt any limper who has Ax and is outkicked if they call an all in. Its also a large proportion of their stacks, do they really want to call with A8 and find we have a real hand? Therefore i think being outkicked here is less of an issue unless someone limped a monster knowing shorty is on bb and would push in such a situation as has been created and they would insta call.

[Easy17]

yeah i'd say A 10 or less, but still

1) any other ace in play has you beat badly, even if they have A3

2) any pp you are behind with only 3 outs

3) live cards are a coinflip

4) i dont think youre short enough for this, but some people dont like even getting close to being short. If you were big also this is ok but youre not.

so... tell me again why you are pushing all in preflop? My impression is that you think you have enough of a read on 4 limpers that you can basically push them all out and steal thier limps. If that is indeed the case, then it doesnt really matter what cards you have i suppose, - I rarely can get that good of a read online on 4 players at once.

Do i think they will call an all-in with A8? you know what i have no idea. Ive seen people push all in with 2 10 off so who knows, sure theyll go all in with A 8, why not.

[chardrian]

Recently moved to the table, so my read is not that good. But yes I agree with miffed on this one.

The fact that someone limped a weak ace, does not mean that that person will then call my push with a weak ace.

Results:

chardrian: Raise (6,450)
Clark Kent22: Call All-in (5,342)
tourney1974: Fold
beanmo : Fold
Pipcelot: Fold

chardrian bet 7,300, (showed hand) [ As 2c ]
Clark Kent22 bet 6,192, (showed hand) [ Jh Qc ]

The real issue with this hand is how often will I take down the pot preflop with my push? If it is at least 1/2 the time, then, IMO, my play was very good.

[JeffreyGB]

The real issue with this hand is how often will I take down the pot preflop with my push? If it is at least 1/2 the time, then, IMO, my play was very good.

I doubt that in general it's half the time here. If you had reads, I could easily see an argument for this play. Without them I think you're too likely to get called with that many people in.

[chardrian]

I agree - bad push on my part. I was happy to be up against JQ tho.

[THaC]

Good outcome, but I make this play about 75% of the time, because if you don't have a read on them, they don't have a read on you.

[zenbitz]

I agree that you are not likely to be dominated by a bigger ace here. However, I think it's highly likely that short stack makes a stand with whatever he decided was worth limping.

[chardrian]

I guess that's where I have problems with my reads. I really don't get the weak limp and then willingness to call your stack off. If you're gonna call it off there, I would think he would just push preflop. If he's weak enough to limp preflop there, I would think he is a big enough puss that he'll fold to aggression as well.

But I know that is not common.

[zenbitz]

Well, limping a weak hand is a huge mistake here in the first place. So, at that point you cannot assume he will play correctly at all. The only acceptable limp from a small stack is a monster.... and even that screams "MONSTER" to the mythical "thinking opponent'.

I think your mistake is assuming that if an opponent acts weak (and is weak) he will continue to act weak throughout the hand. However, folding to a r/r after limping QJo is *correct*. So you assume a player that made a fairly rookie mistake to then make the correct laydown? When the pot is 3 limps bigger? Heck, his call was probably correct on pot odds if your range is Aggressive.