10+1. KK. What the Deuce?

[vqc]

***** Hand History for Game 3445120187 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:19593417 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Friday, January 27, 06:05:52 EDT 2006
Table Table 66957 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: FidLcashflo ( $695 )
Seat 2: vigel ( $815 )
Seat 3: el_piffi ( $1880 )
Seat 4: rmcourier ( $700 )
Seat 5: judithmf ( $960 )
Seat 7: TAZ800 ( $845 )
Seat 9: TheBoneHer ( $775 )
Seat 10: MeoConLonTon ( $1330 )
Trny:19593417 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ Kd Kc ]
el_piffi folds.
rmcourier calls [30].
judithmf calls [30].
TAZ800 folds.
TheBoneHer raises [150].
MeoConLonTon folds.
FidLcashflo folds.
vigel folds.
rmcourier calls [120].
judithmf folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4d, Ac ]
rmcourier bets [65].
TheBoneHer calls [65].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
rmcourier bets [45].
TheBoneHer calls [45].
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
rmcourier bets [40].
TheBoneHer calls [40].

Wat the monkeys is wit the weak ass bets?

[Bailey]

I'd have reraised on the flop.. that way you find out if hes on an ace, and itll cost you less then check calling to the river

[biondino]

Mid pocket pair fits with his limp/call pre-flop. But his donkish play proves, well, he's a donk, so you can't write off Ax. I think you have to raise on the turn tbh - a call means an ace, almost certainly (AJ or AT I'd imagine?). You're neither minimising your risk nor maximising your gains with these teeny calls.

[vqc]

I'd have reraised on the flop.. that way you find out if hes on an ace, and itll cost you less then check calling to the river

it cost me a total of 150 chips to call down.
if i had reraised the flop and shut down if called, it woudve cost me at least 180 chips.

[Fortune 500]

As long as its cheap, I'm calling down here too.

[Bailey]

He bet 65.. reraise to 130.. if he calls he'll very likely check it down, if he doesnt check it down.. I'd probably fold.. depending on shit he did earlier etc..
this is assuming he bets higher now that the pot is larger.. but i dont know if he would

[DogOnMySide]

What's with the weak ass bets??? WHAT'S WITH THE WEAK ASS CALLS, MORE LIKE IT?!??!?!?!

I think you hideously misplayed that.

Find me someone or somewhere which advises calling to the river with kings when in position and I will consider changing my mind.

300+ on the flop. Make him decide whether his Ax is worth his tournament.

If you're going to call it then at least drop the hammer and push when the Q comes out.

There's a chance that after this hand I am starting a new $10+1 whereas you are now still in it but down to 475, because people WILL call with Ax. But I still think i'm right.

[boost]

VQC played it perfect, I dont know what you guys are thinking. Hes getting the chance to show down cheap when theres a good chance hes not ahead. Why would he put in 300 on the flop? Sorry, thats hideously misplaying, or should I say overplaying, this hand. its cheap on the flop, and on the turn he makes it obvious that hes gonna keep it cheap. If theres a time to reraise it would be here on the turn after his second waek bet. Youve got pos, and if you reraise here hes either going away or calling, if he calls hes probably checking to you on theriver and you can check behind. However I see no problem with just calling this down. If he has a mid pp then we are giving him freecards to a 2 outter, nothing we are much worried about, and if he has the A he isnt folding and we are baet anyways. Thers no way with these weak bets taht we are folding, so I dont get why you all are whinning about calling.

[boost]

He bet 65.. reraise to 130.. if he calls he'll very likely check it down, if he doesnt check it down.. I'd probably fold.. depending on shit he did earlier etc..
this is assuming he bets higher now that the pot is larger.. but i dont know if he would

this is terrible. What is a minraise going to chase away? this builds the pot but gets us no info, we want info here, not a bigger pot.

[DogOnMySide]

Whoa so you think that any ace is calling off their stack on this? That surprises me.

i worry about AQ, but i still wouldn't call progressively shite and smaller bets all the way to the river without even attempting to take the pot down

If you bet you have 2 ways to win: he folds, or you win a showdown. This isn't a cash game where you want to get extra bets out of someone.

[Bailey]

A minraise here does wonders, if he doesnt have an ace.. hes done.. hes going to assume you have an ace cause of your raise..

He may call.. but then you get to check it down.. if he bets out on the turn he has you beat

[boost]

its a 10+1 .. any ace is calling off their stack. yes.

[boost]

yah I guess the fish might fold to hte minraise, but I still dont like it. Fish min raise me with thier tp all the time, I love it, thank the lord for fish who give me odds to call to hit my low 2 pair, rofl.

[boost]

convo with bailey on IRC

<boostNslide> yes... but the paly you describe is weak
<boostNslide> sorry
<boostNslide> cuz the way you play it you cant show strength on the turn
<boostNslide> so you have no choice but to show weakness
<boostNslide> the way I play it, you look sneaky or suspicious on the flop, and strong on the turn
<boostNslide> now if he calls the turn bet, he doesnt bet the river
<boostNslide> you see?

[Fortune 500]

KK is not an impervious hand. It's a monster PF, but once an ace hits, it's gone from really strong to mediocre.

This is a lower level SNG... it's so likely that your opp has Ax (and X could be ANYTHING), that calling down is the right play.

You're simply NOT going to raise him off an Ace here 80 percent of the time. So long as its cheap, the only way to make money here is to let him fire with a weaker hand and call down.

[boost]

well the only time I call down is if hes keeping it cheap like this. If he comes back with 200 on the turn or more Im happy to get out. The reason I like the reraise on the turn, fish often small bet - small bet - big bet post flop. And they can do taht with a mid pp or pretty much anything. Its like thier retarded bluff system, the yfigure if you havent reaised them by then, you arent strong. So by rerasing to like 150-175 here this takes taht away from them, they jsut cnat pull that on the river. It also gives him a chance to fold if he doesnt have an A or the very very rare chance that the fish is so fishy that he doesnt put his stack in with any ace.

[zilch]

For those of you calling down here. What size bets do you call down and when do you fold?
I can't see how calling down can be profitable. How often do you think that you are good here? vqc called off nearly 1/2 his stack here so would need to be good nearly as much to break even. I just can't see how that can be the case.

[DogOnMySide]

BoostNSlide your avatar is NSFW it's like an eye magnet LOOK AT MY SCREEEEEENNENENENENEN!

Anyway i see where you're coming from but I don't necessarily think that limp-call mini-bet mini-bet mini-bet signifies some incredible "can't fold" ace that's going to destroy your PP of kings.

If he'd pf raised then maybe. Looks to me like something along the lines of JQ, QK, mid pocket pair... who knows.

Your "this is a $10+1 they could call down with ace-rag" can also be spun as "this is a $10+1 they will call limps with a wide range of drawing hands"

[zenbitz]

villian has 2 diamonds, but he might have A4 or some crap too.
I play it the same. I might fold if a diamond hits. No point in raising nothing you are way ahead of (99) calls. F/D might call... but you are not THAT ahead, and I think the chance of a A (or 2P or better!) calling is too great. If turn and river come running clubs or diamonds or something, I could find a raise on the river.

[konahead]

getting to a cheap showdown holding KK when an Ace hits the board is usually the best path, IMHO.

I might have put in a min-raise to 90 on the turn, hoping to cut off a river bet or garner a reraise so I could dump it, but that's about it.

[boost]

Dog, when did I say thats waht his mini bet means? I typically think that mini bet all the way down is weakness. However if he does have an A hes not folding, and thats why with pos, we are calling the flop, not raising. If we raise the flop we leave our self open to a bluff, because if he calls then he will check the turn, and can we really bet again? Now we are more surehe has an ace, not completely sure since he could be calling us with a PP, but we can know for sure we cant bet the turn now. Now we check and he bets the river, we cant call. If we call behind on the flop then reraise weh nhe makes the weak bet on the turn it looks stronger to him, if he calls here he checks the river and you can check behind. the call - raise turn seems to me to be teh best possible move. Its not that much better then just calling down I dont think though..