Identical hand - SnG/MTT vs. Ring. Your play?

[Warpe]

Curious as to how you would play this hand differently (if you would) given the format. The original is a hand I played recently in a SnG:

SnG/MTT (9 handed)

MP3 (t7360)
CO (t1270)
Button (t970)
Hero (t2845)
BB (t9510)
UTG (t3090)
UTG+1 (t310)
MP1 (t5940)
MP2 (t3110)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, K.
UTG raises to t300, 6 folds, Hero calls t225, 1 fold.

Flop: (t750) Q, T, K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t300, Hero ????


RING (9 handed)

MP3 ($73.60)
CO ($12.70)
Button ($9.70)
Hero ($28.45)
BB ($95.10)
UTG ($30.90)
UTG+1 ($3.10)
MP1 ($59.40)
MP2 ($31.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, K.
UTG raises to $3.00, 6 folds, Hero calls $2.25, 1 fold.

Flop: (t750) Q, T, K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.00, Hero ????

[zarry]

Well it would help to have his play style ect...

But I think i make the same move in both situations raise 2/3x over his bet see how he reacts he comes over the top he has u beat, he calls come out strong again and if he just calls i think u have him And if he folds he was bluffing and u got the money well u could... I dont necessarly think a 300 chip raise or a 3 dollar raise shows that he is holding aj , u have top two lets say he is just for shits and giggles u still have 5 outs to beat him. Now u look at trips, chances of him having kk or qq are slim, 10 10 still a chance then it leaves u will 4 outs, cause runnin 10's i considered an out :0 I still throw the 2/3x raise out there to test the waters if he comes over the top i would drop but if ur gonna raise here play it strong dont come back with a check keep raising

[Warpe]

Well it would help to have his play style ect...

Assume no reads. More interested in knowing if or how people would play this flop for value given its obvious dangers in a tourney situation vs. a cash game. I have my own thoughts, but I'll keep those to myself for now.

[konahead]

I'm making the assumption that the tourney buy-in is around $28, the amount of your $ stack in the ring game - so loss value is even.

I would raise the ring hand to $6-$7, but in the tournament I'd just smooth-call and see what he does on the turn.

I'm willing to lose and re-load in the ring, but if he has a set or AJ, I'm out of the tourney. I have position - let's see how he acts after I smooth-call him.

Plus winning this hand in the ring game gets me potentially $28, while winning the tourney hand does not necessarily get me any money...

That's totally wrong, huh........ tough hand - guide me, sensei.

[zenbitz]

I raise both for value, unless I thought UTG PFR is JJ/QQ/KK/AA only.

He's actually not real likely to have more than 7 outs. AJ already crushes you. A/KTQ is worst case (GSSD+5 outs) I guess he's pretty likely to have 9 outs.

I raise 800-1000 chips or cents. I don't think it matters either way. If I get pushed over I probably call assuming I have 4 outs to the boat over straight. I certainly call in cash game... not sure about tourney depends on the field, payout, etc.

[Warpe]

I raise 800-1000 chips or cents. I don't think it matters either way. If I get pushed over I probably call assuming I have 4 outs to the boat over straight. I certainly call in cash game... not sure about tourney depends on the field, payout, etc.

I think this makes sense for the ring situation, but think about what you're saying here as applied to tourney. You're committing over a third of your stack. What if he just calls? Is UTG raising preflop with AJ?

[Blinky]

I hate 2 pr. Kona: hero is SB. I also believe reads are critical in playing this hand - namely having an idea of what villian raises UTG.

1) Cash game - stack sizes are screwed for cash games - the pfr is 10% of your stack.

I probably fold this one preflop as KQo into a preflop raise OOP is tough. As played, probably play for stacks because the money is shallow assuming $1 BB. TT and AJ suck but you're beating pretty much everything else (KK, QQ unlikely of course).

In this case, I might donkbet into the preflop raiser looking to get raised.

2) Tourney - eep. I might actually fold this preflop (I see blinds are 25/50 so this is a 6bb pfr from UTG). Assuming that this is a fairly typical $10 sng player (where I usually play), there is a pretty wide range of UTG hands... 6bb seems awfully large... You're ahead of most of the stuff that a typical $10 player would raise here (mid and big pockets, and 2 broadways)... I like Kona's line of calling and seeing a turn.

On a safe turn I'd consider pushing as the pot is large relative to your stack.

[konahead]

yeah - I was pretty much just going from his spot after opp bets flop, not from beginning of hand. I wouldn't have called such a large preflop raise w KQo in either game, although I might call it in the ring game. And I'd have bet out the flop on both, to see where I stand.

I guess I should start at the beginning with these, not where poster is at the time of the question......

[aleksandr]

I lead out with a bet in this spot, I think it gives more info, and on a heavily coordinated board it lets him know that I'm what's up.

I think this is one of those hands where you have to bite the occasional loss for value. Push hard over the top (the amount of the pot) and smash his odds. You have a 4 out redraw to the nuts if he hits.

AK/AQ is very possible in this situation, and even ATs. Anyway, I think you win this over half the time, so bet/raise for value. If you get pushed on, do your odds and find out if 4 outs is good.

[zenbitz]

I raise 800-1000 chips or cents. I don't think it matters either way. If I get pushed over I probably call assuming I have 4 outs to the boat over straight. I certainly call in cash game... not sure about tourney depends on the field, payout, etc.

I think this makes sense for the ring situation, but think about what you're saying here as applied to tourney. You're committing over a third of your stack. What if he just calls? Is UTG raising preflop with AJ?

I want him to call. I am only worried about A or T on the turn. But maybe so is he. In any case KQ OOP on an AQKJ or QKJT board vs. EP PFR sucks. That might argue for a big flop raise and hope to take it down.

I guess I might check/fold the turn ... I got the info I wanted there are very very few hands that PRF, then call a check/raise on that flop that I am losing on a 4-broadway board. Worst 2-pair or maybe 99 who thinks you are full of it.