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 Re: No suckout w/ KK
 Originally Posted by r8ed
I played this the "Gabe" way and it resulted in me putting my money in when ahead rather than sucking out. If I played it my old way the end result is the same, but I feel better about this approach.
i always like to hear exactly this, that someone gets their money in while ahead. happy days. glad to see some other FTR members applying the KK vs. flopped ace stuff.
however, i have to agree w/ outphase: raise those cowboys up harder preflop. let me put it this way: a lot of players have a 'standard raise' size that they use each and every time they enter a pot for a raise. a common one is to use the 'bet pot' option, but whatever it is, it's usually around the 3BB-4BB range. this means if they're feeling frisky they will raise w/ their 72o OR they might have a monster PP. you really have to raise more than minimum here because you want to accomplish one of the following:
1. win the pot right there by getting them to fold when they raise w/ rags. worse things have happened in the history of time.
2. get them to call with a worse hand for unjustified odds. this is a long term winning edge, and if you collect enough of these over time, you beat the game and all your base are belong to us. minraising isn't often going to get them to be unjustified in calling. i love getting to call a min raise w/ something like 87s because i know you're interested in your hand and you're letting me catch up for cheap so that when my flop does come i can take that interest and beat you over the head with it. but if you raise it $12-15 instead, their odds don't remain nearly as good for the loose call. make them overpay in order to hit their hand.
3. get them to reraise: here, you find that they're VERY interested in their hand, it's probably not just some rags (unless they think you've been doing this too often), and that you're up for a significantly more difficult post flop hand than normal. the reraise should help you narrow their range of possible hand ranges, but not necessarily, as we all know.
** of course there is another option in this case, for him to be holding AA and to call the larger PFR when you have KK. but, looked at from another way, KK has the advantage here because only one other hand is ahead of it is AA, so you really have to just play your odds and raise hard. most of the time, hands like QQ JJ AK will call that large raise, and you're still ahead on most flops since you were way ahead PF. when your KK gets called by AA, just post it to the bad beats forum and move on with life.
in any event, i think this hand was of the 'r1gg3d' variety and i'm not sure there was going to be a way for him to get away from top two on the turn w/o giving you his stack. oddly enough, had you raised PF harder, he MAY have been able to put you on KK when the turn came for your set and then slow down. however, we're interested in long term results, not in hand to hand variance. just because that might have been the result here doesn't mean it's not something you should do as normal course of action.
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deal?
