ITM all in call

[Rockymv]

PokerStars Game #3955809830: Tournament #19653698, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/02/12 - 23:30:11 (ET)
Table '19653698 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: alice55 (4065 in chips)
Seat 5: Rockymv (3185 in chips)
Seat 8: paddy7777777 (6250 in chips)
alice55: posts the ante 25
Rockymv: posts the ante 25
paddy7777777: posts the ante 25
alice55: posts small blind 100
Rockymv: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rockymv [Th 2h]
paddy7777777: raises 200 to 400
alice55: folds
Rockymv: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [2d 8h 7h]
Rockymv: checks
paddy7777777: bets 3000
Rockymv: calls 2760 and is all-in

Thoughts?

[gabe]

preflop is weird.

i would rather push the flop than call.

[Rockymv]

Would the ideal be a check-raise? Also, what hand do you put him on?

[Jimmy Mac]

Your pair of twos could be ahead here. That bet doesn't want a call. AK?

[Rockymv]

Unless he has 77 or 88 I'm ahead here, and I doubt he plays those hands like this. Given that I'm almost certainly ahead, does a check-raise or a push extract more value?

To be honest, what actually happened was that once I checked and he pushed, I realized that I was only behind if he had a set, which I was confident he didn't have.

[MAX]

The only mistake you can make is to give a free card here. Since you are confident he will bet out (right?), check raising seems like a good line.

[FlyingSaucy]

I think that's a good call. A set would have slow played. The preflop minraise is a little weird, but the huge overbet on the flop certainly seems like evidence that he wants the pot right now. So that means he's got a couple of overs and he thinks he can get any 1 pair to fold.

[krimson]

To be honest, what actually happened was that once I checked and he pushed, I realized that I was only behind if he had a set, which I was confident he didn't have.

T 2 : 43.1%
J 9 : 56.9%

[gabe]

Would the ideal be a check-raise? Also, what hand do you put him on?

when you have a draw that isn't that much of a favorite, you would rather the other person to just fold.

[Dunk]

His action looks good to be two overcards (without any other info), maybe middle pair. His bet of 3000 is clearly a "put the small stack at risk", so he wants you to go away. I'd expect a smaller bet if he had top pair and wanted you to put more money in - then he can walk away if another heart hits and still be chip leader. Your check makes him think you have nothing and he can take this pot down with some muscle.

So in that sense, I like the check. If you think you only have a 1:3 chance to win the tourney, then that's a good parallel for this bet. If you complete your flush, you win (yeah flush over flush maybe but really maybe) and swap places to become chip leader.

I'd interpret his min-raise PF as something like ace/king-trash.

I'll be interested to hear what happened.

[Rondavu]

It's correct to lead out hard into the raiser. Stop checking without intention of calling a push, and then calling anyway. If you're gonna call a push, then just push yourself for the fold equity when you have a pair of 2's.

[Trikflow77]

he has poo....hope he didnt hit turn or river

[VQCsGirl]

Would the ideal be a check-raise? Also, what hand do you put him on?

when you have a draw that isn't that much of a favorite, you would rather the other person to just fold.

You could usually get an aggro player to lead the flop for somehting like 3/4 pot and then push over and still expect them to fold. In situations where you are up against an aggro player that you know will bet the flop for you, you can pick up more chips by check raising.

The only problem in this situation is that his bet ends up being for your stack.

How often do u expect the PFR to make a cbet of more than your stack? Is there anything wrong with expecting him to bet an amount less than the pot and then willing to go all in over the bet?

[Rockymv]

I don't think there's any way I could've expected him to push 3k into a 1k pot.

[MAX]

I thought about this hand after I logged off yesterday. While I don't think you can really mess it up too bad, I came to the same conclusion as Gabe. Taking the pot down uncontested may be more valuable than "gambling" with a check raise. I'd be curious what the ICM numbers say- Is it more profitable to take down the 975 pot on the flop with a push, or getting it ai? Obviously this doesn't take into condideration the times you extract chips by check pushing and getting opp. to donate some chips before he folds, but it is a good starting point.

[Rondavu]

Would the ideal be a check-raise? Also, what hand do you put him on?

when you have a draw that isn't that much of a favorite, you would rather the other person to just fold.

You could usually get an aggro player to lead the flop for somehting like 3/4 pot and then push over and still expect them to fold. In situations where you are up against an aggro player that you know will bet the flop for you, you can pick up more chips by check raising.

But not with a pair of 2's and a flush draw

[gabe]

Would the ideal be a check-raise? Also, what hand do you put him on?

when you have a draw that isn't that much of a favorite, you would rather the other person to just fold.

You could usually get an aggro player to lead the flop for somehting like 3/4 pot and then push over and still expect them to fold. In situations where you are up against an aggro player that you know will bet the flop for you, you can pick up more chips by check raising.

The only problem in this situation is that his bet ends up being for your stack.

How often do u expect the PFR to make a cbet of more than your stack? Is there anything wrong with expecting him to bet an amount less than the pot and then willing to go all in over the bet?

the stack sizes are set up so you have little folding equity with a check raise.