Testing river line (Stars 20+2)

Testing river, UTG+1 is tight/passive and aggressive postflop from the small amount of hands I have on him, what is your line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 (t2230)
CO (t1080)
Button (t1490)
SB (t1730)
Hero (t1490)
UTG (t965)
UTG+1 (t3325)
MP1 (t1190)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 6.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 5 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t75) T, 7, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t60, Hero calls t60.

Turn: (t195) T (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t150, Hero raises to t300, UTG+1 calls t150.

River: (t795) T (2 players)
Hero...?

[Scuba Chuck]

This is actually one of those really really easy postflop/river hands - here's why.

You have two options on how to play this river. Certainly you're confidenct if you're opponent has a T, he's not folding - EVER. Also, your hand has a decent amount of showdown value (there is at least one other made hand besides quads that you beat, and at least one other missed draw).

Option 1: Bet the river. There is some merit to this line. But realistically, the only hands that might call, considering the way villain played this hand is at worst JJ, and at best, Ts over 7ss. So, by betting, the only hand that beats you that might fold is 7s over Ts. I think this hand is very unlikely given the action. So while betting has merit, in that if you lead out, and you are reraised, you can fold with no qualms ( I mean, can you see JJ or 89 reraising on the river?), I think a hand like JJ and 89 has a very difficult time calling a meaningful river bet. It is not the best line, IMO.

Option 2: Check/call. This line has the best merit, IMO. Your primary objective right now is to see a showdown. There's a decent chance that by checking (showing weakness) you can induce a bluff by the missed flush draw. Inducing bluffs is one of the m0st profitable ways to accumulate chips early. Considering your read that this guy is aggressive postflop, there's a good chance you can set this guy for a bluff induction here. I mean, the third ten has got to scare you as much as him, and he might think you'll fold to a push. And if your opponent checks behind, no harm done, he likely wasn't calling a river bet anyway. So, in otherwords, this is a hand where you are WA/WB (Way Ahead/Way Behind), and maximizing value is your primary river objective. My opinion is check/call.

[Alibi]

Welcome back Chuck.

[Trikflow77]

This is actually one of those really really easy postflop/river hands - here's why.

You have two options on how to play this river. Certainly you're confidenct if you're opponent has a T, he's not folding - EVER. Also, your hand has a decent amount of showdown value (there is at least one other made hand besides quads that you beat, and at least one other missed draw).

Option 1: Bet the river. There is some merit to this line. But realistically, the only hands that might call, considering the way villain played this hand is at worst JJ, and at best, Ts over 7ss. So, by betting, the only hand that beats you that might fold is 7s over Ts. I think this hand is very unlikely given the action. So while betting has merit, in that if you lead out, and you are reraised, you can fold with no qualms ( I mean, can you see JJ or 89 reraising on the river?), I think a hand like JJ and 89 has a very difficult time calling a meaningful river bet. It is not the best line, IMO.

Option 2: Check/call. This line has the best merit, IMO. Your primary objective right now is to see a showdown. There's a decent chance that by checking (showing weakness) you can induce a bluff by the missed flush draw. Inducing bluffs is one of the m0st profitable ways to accumulate chips early. Considering your read that this guy is aggressive postflop, there's a good chance you can set this guy for a bluff induction here. I mean, the third ten has got to scare you as much as him, and he might think you'll fold to a push. And if your opponent checks behind, no harm done, he likely wasn't calling a river bet anyway. So, in otherwords, this is a hand where you are WA/WB (Way Ahead/Way Behind), and maximizing value is your primary river objective. My opinion is check/call.

I def check call this river. I also raise more on the turn though, if he has a T you are way ahead and hes going to call more than a min raise.

[GatorJH]

Chuck, I have heard wonderful things about your posts and I must say I am quite impressed with the first one I have read. Well thought out.

[Scuba Chuck]

I def check call this river. I also raise more on the turn though, if he has a T you are way ahead and hes going to call more than a min raise.

Out of curiosity, aren't you pretty confident that by our opponent calling the turn min-raise, that he doesn't have a T (and if he did, wouldn't he raise to try and protect from the FD?)? More specifically, aren't you pretty confident he is on the FD? So, even more evidence that betting the river has relatively no value?

[Trikflow77]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

[IowaSkinsFan]

He could have any PP, and had just lost confidence in it on the turn.

I just don't understand why you want to see a showdown, i think he's representing hands that beat you

[Scuba Chuck]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

I agree that I don't like hero's pattern on streets one and two, but his question in this post was how to play the river. Given all the information in this hand, I find it a very very low probability that our villain has a T, so the way to extract the most value out of this hand is by checking the river.

[Tomazores]

I agree with the check, call option. He may be tight/passive, but considering the amount of his stack, he may have tried limping 78s, or 79s, maybe even clubs. I don't see anything in his betting pattern that would rule this out.

Damnit I still love you Scuba Chuck, welcome back.

I check and called a bet in the region of 400, and UTG+1 has somehow got an A9o, which completely contradicts my stats on him.

[drmcboy]

slow play on flop is gross. Min raise on the turn is grosser.

[Rondavu]

IMO this is not a spot where you want to induce a bluff, because your hand isn't strong enough. I understand what you're saying scuba. Your plan is well thought out and usually correct for a spot like this. Unfortunately, in this spot it's incorrect to check here.

First of all I feel like I'm ahead here, but if I'm behind I'm way behind as stated. In this spot I value bet, because a lot of hands that beat me will just call to cheap show down. That is a key factor for me. The whole "villain only calls if he beats me" line is overrated, and this is a perfect example why. I don't want a tough decision in this spot. If the villain raises my value bet, my decision becomes very easy. Snapping off a bluff here is -EV, even though it worked out.

Also, raising the flop was the best plan with multiple draws showing.

slow play on flop is gross. Min raise on the turn is grosser.

Why? You're probably right but you need to justify yourself.

[Scuba Chuck]

IMO this is not a spot where you want to induce a bluff, because your hand isn't strong enough. I understand what you're saying scuba. Your plan is well thought out and usually correct for a spot like this. Unfortunately, in this spot it's incorrect to check here.

First of all I feel like I'm ahead here, but if I'm behind I'm way behind as stated. In this spot I value bet, because a lot of hands that beat me will just call to cheap show down. That is a key factor for me. The whole "villain only calls if he beats me" line is overrated, and this is a perfect example why. I don't want a tough decision in this spot. If the villain raises my value bet, my decision becomes very easy. Snapping off a bluff here is -EV, even though it worked out.

Also, raising the flop was the best plan with multiple draws showing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the flop check/call, and the turn isn't horrible IMO either (although it's not my line).

But, snapping off a bluff here is certainly not -EV. And furthermore, of all the situations we talk about on forums like this, it's one of the few hands where we are actually talking about poker (as opposed to - "is this a push?")

[drmcboy]

Flop - Not only are there plenty of draws out that may beat you, all your action dries up if they get there, if they don't beat you. I don't like CR here but even that would be better.

Once you're slow playing the flop, why would you not continue on the turn, when you actually have a hand WORTH slow playing since now when he hits the draw you let him have for free, you can get paid. You get an extra 150, but you give him a chance to fold nothing or a crappy draw, AND you put his radar up that you may have a monster.

[Trikflow77]

slow play on flop is gross. Min raise on the turn is grosser.

Why? You're probably right but you need to justify yourself.

The reason i dont like your line is this. If he is on a draw on the flop, he WILL chase. SO why call if he will put money in the pot. If he is on a draw on the turn he WILL chase, so why not make a bigger bet(not saying to make a giant donk bet). If he has a T on the flop he WILL call a raise. If he a a T on the turn he WILL call a bigger bet. I play to try and extract the most value out of my hand. Slowplaying on a heavy drawing board is not the way to do so.

[Scuba Chuck]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

I keep thinking about your turn line. And frankly, I'm not sure why you're advocating an allin move on the turn when our hero now has a full boat. No draws can catchup with us, and we're only be hind quad tens (which we know isn't out there), and 7s over Ts. Since it is so unlikely that he has 77 in the hole, and at best, our opponent is on a draw (or a single T), I don't understand the turn move in. Damn, I hope whatever draw he might be on catches up, 'cos I'd like to get paid.

[Cava72]

So, what was the outcome of the hand?

[Trikflow77]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

I keep thinking about your turn line. And frankly, I'm not sure why you're advocating an allin move on the turn when our hero now has a full boat. No draws can catchup with us, and we're only be hind quad tens (which we know isn't out there), and 7s over Ts. Since it is so unlikely that he has 77 in the hole, and at best, our opponent is on a draw (or a single T), I don't understand the turn move in. Damn, I hope whatever draw he might be on catches up, 'cos I'd like to get paid.

Im not saying all in Chuck......but i would have raised the flop and raised the turn more than a min raise.....i said most of my money....i would not have been all in on the turn unless my action dictated an all in from the other player.

[Scuba Chuck]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

I keep thinking about your turn line. And frankly, I'm not sure why you're advocating an allin move on the turn when our hero now has a full boat. No draws can catchup with us, and we're only be hind quad tens (which we know isn't out there), and 7s over Ts. Since it is so unlikely that he has 77 in the hole, and at best, our opponent is on a draw (or a single T), I don't understand the turn move in. Damn, I hope whatever draw he might be on catches up, 'cos I'd like to get paid.

Im not saying all in Chuck......but i would have raised the flop and raised the turn more than a min raise.....i said most of my money....i would not have been all in on the turn unless my action dictated an all in from the other player.

I'm sorry, then I misunderstood your post.

[Trikflow77]

i agree, if he had a ten, i think he would reraise here, so a flush draw is more likely, especially with the donk lead with the board paired.

Honestly, i dont like heros flop or turn lines on this hand at all. I think he cornered himself here, i think most of my money would have been in the pot by the turn.

I keep thinking about your turn line. And frankly, I'm not sure why you're advocating an allin move on the turn when our hero now has a full boat. No draws can catchup with us, and we're only be hind quad tens (which we know isn't out there), and 7s over Ts. Since it is so unlikely that he has 77 in the hole, and at best, our opponent is on a draw (or a single T), I don't understand the turn move in. Damn, I hope whatever draw he might be on catches up, 'cos I'd like to get paid.

Im not saying all in Chuck......but i would have raised the flop and raised the turn more than a min raise.....i said most of my money....i would not have been all in on the turn unless my action dictated an all in from the other player.

I'm sorry, then I misunderstood your post.

what i meant by most my money is that i would have been jamming this pot, not slowplaying it.