Too risky or well played?

[fasin8ing]

I have been working on continuations and so forth... Too much or just right?


***** Hand History for Game 3556575072 *****
Avinet finished in tenth place.
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 20189792) - Tue Feb 14 23:37:25 EST 2006
Table Table 67248 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Chemibear69 (815)
Seat 2: maverico12 (435)
Seat 3: flushbandit1 (1630)
Seat 5: knobber69 (1150)
Seat 6: scranton63 (800)
Seat 7: dmonster88 (800)
Seat 8: JSJPS (800)
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 (785)
Seat 10: jarda111 (785)
knobber69 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Jd, Ac ]
scranton63 folds.
dmonster88 folds.
JSJPS folds.
fasin8ing1 raises (60) to 60
jarda111 folds.
Chemibear69 calls (60)
maverico12 folds.
flushbandit1 folds.
knobber69 calls (45)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7h, 4s, 9c ]
knobber69 checks.
fasin8ing1 bets (145)
Chemibear69 calls (145)
knobber69 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2c ]
fasin8ing1 bets (250)
Chemibear69 folds.

[taipan168]

Hmmm...nice result, but it takes some guts to fire the second bullet on the turn after your flop bet was called. Not sure that I'm taking this risk so early in the tourney, if you get called or raised on the turn you've got to let the hand go and have burnt more than half your stack.

Early in the tourney in MP I think I dump this PF - particularly considering that the big stack has position on you here.

The preflop raise is fine, the continuation bet is fine. But my rule is that if you have a PFR and a continuation bet called and you still haven't paired, you're on check/fold mode from the turn onwards.

Nice result, but that would be being too results orientated! Make sure not to risk such a high percentage of your stack on a hand that is, by the turn, very easily dominated.

[biondino]

8 times out of ten the call on the flop means you're beaten. You don't have any draws except high cards (which he may well have too). I'd probably not even cont bet at all here, unless I felt chemibear was weak and the BB wasn't slowplaying. And if I did fire the 2nd barrel, I'd have to assume that it needed a bigger bet, which would mean all-in.

[Renton]

Looks like you were probably up against ace king. For some reason the PP low stakes sit and go guys have trouble letting AK go when they miss the flop, so they chase their overcards to the turn, then fold.

I would have folded this preflop. You should play nothing but premium hands (AA,KK,QQ, limp all other pairs, and AK, AQ) until the first three players go down in flames.

All your looking to do at this point in a sng is double up with a great hand.

[fasin8ing]

Well put Renton. Your reply to my post has made the most sense. Thanks alot for the advice. However; Ive seen these guys come over the top on the flop with A K and shove. Then its an easy fold. You are very correct about letting the first three go out before you start playing. You are very right about playing only premium premium premium hands like AA KK QQ before 3 players exit and early. Sometimes I think to myself, I should just double up and then check the away button and wait it out.. I feel I do better sometimes when I sit out untill level 5-6 after doubling up.

[thnwkd]

Well put Renton. Your reply to my post has made the most sense.

hmmm. just to stir the pot a bit, are you implying that the other replies made little sense

I feel I do better sometimes when I sit out untill level 5-6 after doubling up.

maybe but you're probably missing a lot of opportunities.

[Warpe]

I feel I do better sometimes when I sit out untill level 5-6 after doubling up.

maybe but you're probably missing a lot of opportunities.

Sitters drive me crazy. Unless they're sitting on my left.

[fasin8ing]

Youre not stiring anything, all the replys make sense unless your a retard. However; I liked Rentons the best and it made the most sense pertaining to what I was asking.

[Scuba Chuck]

Fold preflop. Do not look to this hand as anything for learning purposes, other than to fold preflop.

[Jimmy Mac]

Fold preflop. Do not look to this hand as anything for learning purposes, other than to fold preflop.

I'm not saying it's incorrect, but that's pretty tight advice. What's your range here?

[daluchy]

First level of SnG. You aren't looking for trouble with AJo in MP.

This hand could of cost alot of chips early esp, luckily the other guy folded to the turn bet.

[thnwkd]

Youre not stiring anything, all the replys make sense unless your a retard. However; I liked Rentons the best and it made the most sense pertaining to what I was asking.

all replys d0 make sense, I think u like Rentons best because it validates your play the most, which is probably what you were looking for when u posted.

[Trikflow77]

Fold preflop. Do not look to this hand as anything for learning purposes, other than to fold preflop.

Chuck, while i agree he should fold this hand in middle position, this is a stars sng and as you well know you get 1500 starting chips. I believe you mainly play party correct? I have booked 2k or so stars sngs over the last month and a half and i play them quite different from party. I open up quite a bit more in the early stages, my stack can afford to tka a hit or two early without it effecting my late game play. This mean i can call a raise or 2 with a mid pair, raise an AJ (in position only i might add) and limp some hands in position (because of the better implied odds) that i would NEVER do in a party sng.

I think most players should not be doing this because it will get you in trouble at times. But i also think these sngs are stuctured to where a better player can take advantage and exploit his edge to the fullest.

In the case of this AJ hand, i think the hero is risking too much of his stack early on a marginal hand out of position

On another note, when i know a player is one like dwarfman said, that will c-bet once and then give up every time........i do this all day and twice on sunday to them if i have position............

100/200 with antes (stars) I have a 4k stack at this point

Dealt to hero [Ad Tc]
aikiman: folds
vegas292o: folds
The34Eagle: folds
RikkiDee: raises 600 to 800
hero: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [2h 4h Qc]
RikkiDee: bets 600
hero: calls 600
*** TURN *** [2h 4h Qc] [Qd]
RikkiDee: checks
hero: bets 600
RikkiDee: folds
hero collected 2800 from pot

[Renton]

in a sng I don't play any ace other the AK until the blinds become cumbersome enough to steal (or I sense extreme weakness at the table).

[Renton]

I feel I do better sometimes when I sit out untill level 5-6 after doubling up.

maybe but you're probably missing a lot of opportunities.

Sitters drive me crazy. Unless they're sitting on my left.

so are you loose aggressive early in a sng?

If so please give us a rundown of your thought process and how successful it is.

[bluey]

On another note, when i know a player is one like dwarfman said, that will c-bet once and then give up every time........i do this all day and twice on sunday to them if i have position............

So whats the best defense against this? Randomly fire with air on the turn?

[IowaSkinsFan]

8 times out of ten the call on the flop means you're beaten.

Im completely disagree with this statement, A call on that flop to me would either mean a high PP (unlikely), set (possible), or two high cards which i think is most likely. no one is going to slowplay a 9 on that flop So I like the second bullet.

[andy-akb]

I feel I do better sometimes when I sit out untill level 5-6 after doubling up.

maybe but you're probably missing a lot of opportunities.

Sitters drive me crazy. Unless they're sitting on my left.

so are you loose aggressive early in a sng?

If so please give us a rundown of your thought process and how successful it is.

I see this a lot on this forum in regards to AJ, typically any hand posted with hero holding AJ the replies are "fold preflop." Im [fairly] new to SNGsand have a modest winning record so far this year at the stars $5.50s, nothing special and I know Im still learning. Still though, I feel that early in SNGs there are times to play AJ. I wouldnt advocate as much aggression as the OP showed, but I feel that conversely, playing only AK early is too tight. If you know when to fold and have reads on your opponents, is there much harm in limping AJ preflop in late position?

Edit: Just read over the posts again, and I can see folding this preflop solely in 800 chippers, my question deals with the 1500 chip structure of stars

[Rockymv]

Wait...I'm confused about this hand history. It says 15/30 at the top. Did you minraise here?

The chip amounts look like a party sng, in which case the stacks are too shallow to be playing around with AJo. Even in a 1500 chipper I'm probably folding this preflop. I'd rather use those extra chips to see some flops for cheap with suited one-gappers and the like.

The flop bet looks fine to me. I agree that if your cont. bet is called on the flop, you're usually behind enough of the time that making that big turn cont. bet isn't going to ultimately be profitable.

If you're absolutely determined to bet the turn, I think you have to bet more than you did. Your bet is begging to be raised.

[fasin8ing]

If so please give us a rundown of your thought process and how successful it is.[/quote]

My thought process is like everyone else in a sng. Tight is right, Im looking to double up. (Group 1,2,3 hands HOH ) I can limp with suited anything and know if Iam ahead or not ie; A X s. I have the chips to bet my own odds early on and keep the pot within reason. If it gets too large and I have aggression toward me , i can let it go. I switch back and forth with 60 % raising and 40% calling the BB. Although my style may be loose agressive, I pick my places wisely. Its all about how you pick your spots right? However; I am not loose aggressive untill I have the chips to play loose aggresive. How tight are you going to play at a 5 dollar sng? Too many times I have played only strong hands and it has back fired on me. The ones who flush you out with 2 3 suited are the ones building their stacks... The smart players will switch back to a more conservative playing style after they have been fortunate to double or triple up. At least untill they are ITM. Good example -
Last night, I doubled up with A 7s ...I had like 2100 in chips on party. I lost power (electricity for the entire subdivions) in the middle of the tourny. Power was not restored untill early this morning. I looked at my hand history, with 5 players left I placed 3rd. I didnt even play the whole tourny! Is there anything you disagree with Renton?

[Scuba Chuck]

Fold preflop. Do not look to this hand as anything for learning purposes, other than to fold preflop.

Chuck, while i agree he should fold this hand in middle position, this is a stars sng and as you well know you get 1500 starting chips. I believe you mainly play party correct? I have booked 2k or so stars sngs over the last month and a half and i play them quite different from party. I open up quite a bit more in the early stages, my stack can afford to tka a hit or two early without it effecting my late game play. This mean i can call a raise or 2 with a mid pair, raise an AJ (in position only i might add) and limp some hands in position (because of the better implied odds) that i would NEVER do in a party sng.

I think most players should not be doing this because it will get you in trouble at times. But i also think these sngs are stuctured to where a better player can take advantage and exploit his edge to the fullest.

In the case of this AJ hand, i think the hero is risking too much of his stack early on a marginal hand out of position

I will concede to your point, even if it's more than just the difference between Party and Stars. I should have been more particular about people's post flop skills.

[Gatorcon]

I have been working on continuations and so forth... Too much or just right?


15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 20189792) - Tue Feb 14 23:37:25 EST 2006
Table Table 67248 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Chemibear69 (815)
Seat 2: maverico12 (435)
Seat 3: flushbandit1 (1630)
Seat 5: knobber69 (1150)
Seat 6: scranton63 (800)
Seat 7: dmonster88 (800)
Seat 8: JSJPS (800)
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 (785)
Seat 10: jarda111 (785)
knobber69 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Jd, Ac ]
scranton63 folds.
dmonster88 folds.
JSJPS folds.

fasin8ing1 raises (60) to 60

If you "are" going to play this hand from this position I would at least make the standard 3x or 4x BB raise from here to get position. But this is early in what looks like a party sng, usually raises get no respect. Then I might lead out with th C-bet after the flop but the call there would make me think, he could be playing any PP or suit-connecters. Looks dangerous to me with only 800 starting chips.