AJ ITM in PP 40k Gnty

[JeffreyGB]

Big stack has been calling EVERY bet I make preflop. Knowing that, do you do anything different?

NL Texas Hold'em Trny:20158708 Level:14 Blinds (1000/2000) - Tuesday, February 14, 01:49:28 EDT 2006
Table $40K Guaranteed(597489) Table #5 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: Hammer14 ( $16558 )
Seat 9: JGB146PP ( $29659 )
Seat 2: SLICK41 ( $48812 )
Seat 4: SupremeHK ( $57434 )
Seat 5: kevinsweeny ( $12830 )
Seat 6: sixstar666 ( $8820 )
Seat 7: venti_stax ( $85995 )
Seat 10: CHARSAR ( $124974 )
Seat 8: RG440nw ( $43750 )
Trny:20158708 Level:14
Blinds (1000/2000)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JGB146PP [ Jc Ad ]
venti_stax folds.
RG440nw folds.
JGB146PP raises [6000].
CHARSAR calls [6000].
SLICK41 folds.
Hammer14 folds.
SupremeHK folds.
kevinsweeny folds.
sixstar666 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 8s, Qd ]
JGB146PP checks.
CHARSAR checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
JGB146PP bets [8000].
CHARSAR calls [8000].
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
JGB146PP is all-In [15659]

[gabe]

Big stack has been calling EVERY bet I make preflop. Knowing that, do you do anything different?

is that all we know abuot him? aggro/passive maybe?

[JeffreyGB]

Big stack has been calling EVERY bet I make preflop. Knowing that, do you do anything different?

is that all we know abuot him? aggro/passive maybe?

Pretty passive. He'd call big bets with any part of the board, but rarely reraise. And he wasn't a stellar player by any means, though I can't say specifically what prompted this opinion.

[gabe]

i think your turn bet was a mistake, especially out of position against this player.

if you bet, you have to push because the pot is too big and your stack is too small to bet and fold to a raise. also, he is passive so he is unlikely to bluff if you check, which means you lose value from hands you beat, but that he would call a bet with.

so i think you have to bet the river, and since you bloated the pot on the turn, you have to push.

[JeffreyGB]

i think your turn bet was a mistake, especially out of position against this player.

Your line would be to check the turn and bet the river (presumably about the size of my turn bet)?

also, he is passive so he is unlikely to bluff if you check, which means you lose value from hands you beat, but that he would call a bet with.

I'm not following how his passivity makes me lose value from hands I beat when I bet. If anything, I'd think I gain value from hands I beat.

Also, the river...given the 88QA board, I'm splitting with any A but AK/Q and only beating Qx and pocket pairs. Do either of those call a river bet? In his case, yeah, probably... Still, was betting the river here really a worthwhile play?

[Renton]

Your line would be to check the turn and bet the river (presumably about the size of my turn bet)?

I think your bet on the turn after failing to bet the flop shows a lack of confidence in your hand. That wasn't a particularly dangerous flop, so a c-bet was maybe in order.

But since you said he was passive, he may have just called that bet with his small pocket pair or flush draw. I don't think the timing of your bet would have made much difference in this case.

[drmcboy]

He'd call big bets with any part of the board, but rarely reraise. And he wasn't a stellar player by any means, though I can't say specifically what prompted this opinion.

Tell me this was tongue in cheek. Do good players call huge bets with any part of the board?

I don't really get your post. It takes an idiot to bluff a man you know is going to call you.

Clearly you bet the river since he is calling with a Q or J. If he isn't, your read is wrong. An advantage to calling anything is it's impossible for someone to know if you have an 8 or Q in this type of spot. There is no defense.

[chardrian]

Let me take a stab at the thought processes here.

JGB: Ugly flop, this guy calls with anything preflop so let's see what he does

CHAR (interesting name choice imo): I don't know what he has, let's just check.

Turn

JGB: this passive fool just checked the flop, he can't have anything. I'll bet and take it down.

CHAR: this aggressive fool bets at anything, that 5 couldn't have helped him and I have just as good of a chance to win with my two cards now as I did preflop so let's call him.

River -

JGB: Woo hoo! I hit my A - let's push and see what Mr. passive does now. I either have him beat or I don't, but that river is too good for me to let go.

CHAR: ??

As far as lines go - I have often made the same one as you, but I think the better line if you are going to check the flop is to check the turn as well.

[JeffreyGB]

Chardrian was pretty close to my thinking on this hand...I figured betting the flop provided me no information as he'd call with anything (including a number of hands I beat). When he checked behind, I suspected my hand was good and bet the turn accordingly. I feel like in retrospect I should have respected his call more - he wouldn't reraise a raiser, but he didn't give completely free cards if he was worried.

I suspect that the A would have been enough of a scare card to get a fold if he didn't tie/beat the AA88Q. Given that 8x, and 55 are both completely in his range and the way the action went down, I almost like a check on the river.

Here's why: On the flop, his check behind can mean anything. He can have nothing; he could have any pair; or he could have an 8. A lower pair is less likely because he's giving a free card instead of making a weak bet. His call on the turn indicates that he does have something. That he didn't bet the flop actually strengthens the cards he's likely holding. When the A hits and I push as the PFR, it's pretty clear what I have. He might call with a hand I beat, but honestly I doubt it. I'd say there's at least as good a chance that if he calls, I'm beat. Checking saves me in those situations, and given previous hands I feel confident in saying he's only betting there if he beats my hand.

Then again, I may just be thinking too results oriented...he held Q8.

[Easy17]

hindsight is 20-20 and even poor players catch hands - I dont think your play was really bad, and when you see someone making poor plays its harder to put them on a monster when they flop a FH.