Overbet=Weakness?..!

[K2 the ArmA]

I'm going to start posting a lot of hands that can open possible discussion and maybe learn a little more about why the hands went well or did not.

PokerStars Game #4002797743: Tournament #19613691, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/02/17 - 13:36:27 (ET)
Table '19613691 68' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tommy111xxx (1600 in chips)
Seat 2: Dreamer59 (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: countryklub (3290 in chips)
Seat 5: $oprano (1440 in chips)
Seat 6: willywonk (1480 in chips)
Seat 7: birdreynolds (1060 in chips)
Seat 8: K 2the ArmA (1340 in chips)
Seat 9: wpt-nuts (1660 in chips)
birdreynolds: posts small blind 10
K 2the ArmA: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to K 2the ArmA [Ad 4h]
Dreamer59 said, "nh"
wpt-nuts: raises 20 to 40
tommy111xxx: folds
Dreamer59: folds
countryklub: folds
$oprano: folds
willywonk: folds
birdreynolds: folds
K 2the ArmA: calls 20
*** FLOP *** [6h 3c Jc]
K 2the ArmA: checks
wpt-nuts: bets 120
K 2the ArmA: raises 480 to 600
wpt-nuts: folds
K 2the ArmA collected 330 from pot
K 2the ArmA: shows [Ad 4h] (high card Ace)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 330 | Rake 0
Board [6h 3c Jc]
Seat 1: tommy111xxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Dreamer59 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: countryklub folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: $oprano folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: willywonk (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: birdreynolds (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: K 2the ArmA (big blind) collected (330)
Seat 9: wpt-nuts folded on the Flop

Very early in tournament, all I know is that overbet on the flop just seems like he wants me out of the hand, so i slammed him.

[cardsman1992]

Worked for you this time. What buy in is this? Might have had sooted K (maybe K6 suited), maybe TT....maybe nothing but a draw. But longterm, I would think playing A4o to an UTG raise is a losing proposition. Lower level players can play literally any two cards and not care. They love any paint and a lot of times even just Kxo or Qxo. If your A hits, do you really know you're good? You either win a little pot or lose a big pot with those cards unless you flop a straight. I know Aces look pretty, but they are dangerous unless you have something strong to go with them....and I would hate to lose a big pot this early. Later on in the tourney you can open up a little bit, but not at this stage.

Just my .02.

[K2 the ArmA]

Agreed, I'm definantly on tilt, I bubbled my last two tournaments to a 2 outer and then a 1 outer. What are you putting him on with his bet though?

[cardsman1992]

Likely he has an Ace as well and is afraid with your reraise that you hit the J. He could have AK, AQ, AT, Suited ace. I think that is most likely. Then maybe from there you could think a PP 77-TT that is scared of the Jack pairing up or QQ-AA. I think an ace though....

[drmcboy]

pot size on the flop is so small I don't really consider it an over bet. Everyone is going to call a pot size or less bet there with flush draw - with implied odds probably correctly.

without a read I'm not getting involved here. Your play needs to work about 75 % of the time to show a profit - I don't think you can be that sure. If he moves in you just donated half your stack.

[Phantaroth]

Overbet isn't garunteed weekness... sometimes ill over bet with the nuts and risk them folding because I know if they have 2nd best hand they might see me as 100% bluffing and push all in vs me...

[Renton]

I have noticed that overbet means weakness in tournys a lot of the time, and it means extreme strength in ring games a lot of the time.

[Easy17]

just a standard c-bet, prolly 2 big cards or small pp.

nice bluff but if hes a worse player or a better player it may not work so well.

[fjuanl]

i personally wouldnt want to get involved this early on. you can either fold and lose 40 chips or try this and risk half your stack to pick up a small pot

without any reads you cant judge an overbet as weakness or strength.

[Death_Kube_K]

Yes i agree with FJ... no reads, no money in the pot??? why even attempt to play against a raiser........ i would of folded pre-flop!!! wait till when antes start to kick in to get good pot odds then start playing some cards~