Outplayed and spat out!

[Hop_Gazza]

** Game ID 433224751 starting - 2006-02-20 19:21:44
** 20 Hand $5 10-Seat D [Hold 'em] (30.00|60.00 No Limit - STT) Real Money
- GeneralStorm sitting in seat 1 with $4445.00
- dossbag sitting in seat 3 with $1620.00
- djnet sitting in seat 5 with $589.00
- Jengie_1 sitting in seat 6 with $3490.00
- rauk84 sitting in seat 7 with $2187.00 [Dealer]
- Rackham73 sitting in seat 8 with $1529.00
- Hop_Gazza1 sitting in seat 10 with $1095.00

Rackham73 posted the small blind - $15.00
Hop_Gazza1 posted the big blind - $30.00

** Dealing card to Hop_Gazza1: 6 of Clubs, Jack of Spades
GeneralStorm folded
dossbag folded
djnet folded
Jengie_1 folded
rauk84 folded
Rackham73 raised - $60.00
Hop_Gazza1 called - $60.00

>>>>No real read - assumed he was blind stealing.

** Dealing the flop: Ace of Diamonds, 5 of Spades, 5 of Diamonds

Rackham73 checked
Hop_Gazza1 bet - $60.00 >>>> Min bet to imply I had the Ace

Rackham73 called - $60.00 >>>> Assumed he was calling to draw for a flush.

** Dealing the turn: 5 of Hearts

Rackham73 checked
Hop_Gazza1 bet - $240.00 >>> time to put in a pot sized bet.
Rackham says "you bluffing?"
Rackham73 called - $240.00

** Dealing the river: 6 of Hearts >>> Yeah, got lucky and hit a Full House!

Rackham73 checked
Hop_Gazza1 bet - $630.00
Rackham73 went all-in - $1184.00
Hop_Gazza1 went all-in - $135.00

Rackham73 shows: 5 of Clubs, 3 of Clubs

Rackham73 wins $2250.00 from the main pot with 4 of a kind 5's

Chalk one up to experience.

[andy-akb]

Even if he was blind stealing, how are you planning on winning that hand betting the way you did? I do not advocate it with this hand, but if you suspect a blind steal and are trying to defend, why not go with a sizeable reraise preflop? And how exactly does a minbet represent an Ace? Unless you are going for a post-oak bluff, which will never work at a $5 tourney, I dont really see how thats going to push him off the hand. I wouldnt play preflop, the flop, or the turn the way you did, but you have to push on that river. I guess I just dont really see how your bets were going to accomplish your goal.

[dj newman]

I don't mind standing up to blind stealers - but to assume it is not a good play....especially with J6o. After he called the turn...what exactly did you put him on? Does he call a pot sized bet with a flush draw? He must either have a 5, A or PP in my books...but if he has a PP....he would be leading/reraising the flop and/or turn (Cause he might think you are on the F/D). The river raise is terrible - what hand is going to call this that doesn't have you beat?

[drmcboy]

ugh. andy mostly explained pre flop, flop issues, but he broke down on the river, which is the worst part of the hand.

what hand do you expect to be called by? 22-44? Everything else has you beat. He isn't going to call and show you king high. CHECK BEHIND!!!!!

[JPSlayerNuts]

I don't feel the need to defend my blind and fold PF. J6o? With the BB being 3% of your stack, it's not like you're in a hurry to make a move. What flop could possibly make you win a significant pot here?

[andy-akb]

ugh. andy mostly explained pre flop, flop issues, but he broke down on the river, which is the worst part of the hand.

what hand do you expect to be called by? 22-44? Everything else has you beat. He isn't going to call and show you king high. CHECK BEHIND!!!!!

I think that is really my biggest problem right now, when to push and when not to. I try to get into the mindset where I ask myself, "What will call me," but during games I never take the time, and often just make a hurried decision, "Oh well, I might as well just push it." What steps do you go through mentally before deciding what your play is in a spot where all your chips are on the line, or could be?

[Hop_Gazza]

The quick answer is I got into a hole, wanted him to fold - kept digging convincing myself that he had nothing. Yep I got it very, very wrong but I was more impressed by the way he played. No aggression - flat calling and the "are you bluffing" statement. I played like a fish and ended up gutted.

[drmcboy]

Can my hand win?
It's that simple :P

No - the question is whether to bluff or not, which is just math:

If the pot it 50, and a bet of 10 will win it once in 4 times, it's a good play. Reads are clearly important here.

Yes, I have the uber hand and I want to go broke with it:

This is easy, bet. The exception is if you think your opponent has nothing (maybe he has played like he is on a draw, and they all missed). Often it is better to check (OOP) and give them a chance to bluff.

Yes, I have a hand that might win, but it's not great:

Now we must decide whether to bet or check. The weaker your hand is, the more you should check. Not just because your hand is weak, but because if you bet, you will often not be called unless beat, where as if you check, your opponent may bet hands YOU beat (see my hand has no chance to win, above) and you can make a little more.

This is where we are here. We have position, and a marginal hand. It's important to note opp called the turn with A555 board. Yes, there is a flush draw out, but even fish can typically fold a flush draw with 555 on the board. So we assume opp either has a PP, or the A, or the 5. Or he may be making a weird call with nothing hoping to bluff you out on the end. But on the river, we can throw out nothing, since he checked. Also, if he has nothing, you can now check and win the pot. If he has nothing, he will not call your bet. If he has 22-44, he MAY call. As the PPs go up, he is more likely to call. If he has the A or the 5, he will call all day. There is only one range, 22-44, where the river push is a good result. And I think you'll agree 22-44 are the least likely holdings.

The other option to consider is whether opp will fold a better hand. At first glance, it seems like opp might fold 77-KK here to the river push. However, the fact that this is a blind war and (again) the fact that he called on the A555 board make that very unlikely.

The irony of this hand is that the reason Hop's opponent played this hand so 'well' is that Hop repped the A nicely. Opp assumes (correctly) that if someone has an A on that board, they are never going to stop betting, and is able to check quads on the river, knowing the A will lead.