Multi-table SNG optimal ROI%?

[Vinterriket]

I know that a 20-30% roi is great for single table sngs. Should there be any change to the expected roi% for multi-table sngs? Assuming you have a large sample size of lets say 10,000 sngs, what would be the optimal roi% when playing these multi-tables? Or would the optimal (sustainable) roi% remain constant?

2-table?
3-table?
5-table?

[Scuba Chuck]

Can you post a buyin?

FWIW, I don' t think there is that much loss in ROI when I 4 table. Once I begin to add tables beyond that, 8 or 10 tables for example, I do not have the ability to make great reads. I'd say on average you're losing 3-7% ROI, but gaining significant $/hr.

[Vinterriket]

lets say $10+1 sngs.

Also just to be clear I'm not talking about simultaneously playing multiple single-table sngs. I'm talking about playing one multi-table sng (for example: the PokerStars 2-table, 3-table, or 5-table sng)

[mcatdog]

The more tables you add, the higher your ROI ought to be, because they take longer and give you more chances to outplay your opponents. Assuming you know how to adjust to a multi-table tournament, I think your ROI should go up exponentially the longer a tournament takes. So if your ROI in a single-table tournament is 20%, it ought to be around 44% in a 3-table SNG because those take 2 hours while a 1-table tournament takes one hour. I'm kind of pulling this out of my butt, it makes sense to me though.

[Staresy]

I think you can increase you ROI on multi-tables or, at the least, sustain it. Whilst you are going to have an increase in variance in the places (because, lets face it, you are not going to place in every one and there are more places to land OTM in), this is coutered by the fact that winning or placing ITM offers you more than a single table SnG.

i.e. you win a 2-table $10+1 and that's $72. 61/11 is over a 500% ROI.
Note don't all go mental, I know this is one SnG, but it's to make a point about the increase in ROI that multi-table SnG's offer!

Lets say for the sake of argument you play 100x$10+1 2-tables and get
1st x 7
2nd x 7
3rd x 7
4th x 7

that would give you an ITM% of just 28% ROI of 14.5%.

However, I think if you are a good player, there is no reason why you could not crush these games. Speaking from personal experience, I found the $5 2-tables ridiculously beatable and my ROI is still about 80% on them! (small sample size, granted). I haven't played enough of the $11s to make comment yet.

One other thing though, for some reason I think these multi-table SnG's attract even more of the fishies because they see it as a way of making "big" money.

If your $ per hour is gerater than your $ per hour when single tabling, you're a good multitabler. ROI isn't important when mutitabling, $ per hour is.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

If your $ per hour is gerater than your $ per hour when single tabling, you're a good multitabler. ROI isn't important when mutitabling, $ per hour is.

I believe he is talking about multi-table SNGs, not multi-tabling single table SNGs.

[anarchoi]

Very interesting.

Untill today i had ONLY played single table 5 dollar SNGs, but i decided to try a multitable today.
So i was wondering if a 2 table SNG offers the better players a higher roi than the single tables, what about the 3 and 4 tables SNGs?

I really want to hear you guys points of view about multitable sngs.

/a

[Rockymv]

As the tournament size gets larger, generally your ITM will go down but your ROI will go up.

[swiggidy]

I really want to hear you guys points of view about multitable sngs.

They're great but as Staresy said, be prepared for variance (i.e. you need a bigger bankroll). You can win ~12 buy-ins by finishing 1st on a 5 table SnG, but you're also going to face 5-10 OTM finishes in between. It's a great feeling to win 2 in a row. It sucks to loose the next 10 and you've lost 1/2 your winnings.

If your $ per hour is gerater than your $ per hour when single tabling, you're a good multitabler. ROI isn't important when mutitabling, $ per hour is.

I believe he is talking about multi-table SNGs, not multi-tabling single table SNGs.

I'm such a retard.

[konahead]

They got little hands, little eyes
They walk around tellin' great big lies
They got little noses and tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes on their nasty little feet

Well, I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
'Round here

They got little baby legs, they stand so low
You got to pick 'em up just to say hello
They got little cars that go beep, beep, beep
They got little voices goin' peep, peep, peep
They got grubby little fingers and dirty little minds
They're gonna get you every time

Short people are just the same as you and I
A fool such as I
All men are brothers until the day they die
It's a wonderful world, dwarfman

[Vinterriket]

From my experience I seem to have a higher roi% when playing multi-table sngs rather than single-table sngs, so this agrees with the comments made here. I have longer OTM streaks but cash harder when I win so in that respect it is becoming similar to a MTT.

I've started using an excel file to track my sngs (%ITM, net ROI%, net gain/loss etc). My sample size is absurdly small still so the net ROI% i currently have I believe is surely not sustainable, but I was questioning what a sustaniable ROI% is then for lets say only playing the PokerStars 5-table sng.

[anarchoi]

I've started using an excel file to track my sngs (%ITM, net ROI%, net gain/loss etc). My sample size is absurdly small still so the net ROI% i currently have I believe is surely not sustainable, but I was questioning what a sustaniable ROI% is then for lets say only playing the PokerStars 5-table sng.

No idea about that. But concerning PokerStars MTTs :
There are 3 different types of MTT and the ITM chance is in my opinion very different:
18 players 4 places paid
27 players 5 places paid
45 players 7 places paid
Thats why i dont play the 45 player SNGS - does that make any sense?

/a

[Rockymv]

I've started using an excel file to track my sngs (%ITM, net ROI%, net gain/loss etc). My sample size is absurdly small still so the net ROI% i currently have I believe is surely not sustainable, but I was questioning what a sustaniable ROI% is then for lets say only playing the PokerStars 5-table sng.

No idea about that. But concerning PokerStars MTTs :
There are 3 different types of MTT and the ITM chance is in my opinion very different:
18 players 4 places paid
27 players 5 places paid
45 players 7 places paid
Thats why i dont play the 45 player SNGS - does that make any sense?

/a

Right, but if you place you're paid a lot more. I know a lot of people feel they can sustain a higher ROI in these because your ITM goes down, but not as much as you'd expect given the change in the number of places that pay.

[swiggidy]

Thats why i dont play the 45 player SNGS - does that make any sense?

No it doesn't.

ITM
9 person 33%
18 - 22%
27 - 19%
45 - 7%

What's your point? Are you arguing for only playing 1 table?

I like the 45-person because the bubble starts when you're still on 2 tables so it's easier to make moves (I do better short handed than full table). I don't play 27 because after you get to the final table the bubble starts and you have to wait for 1/2 the table to be eliminated. 18 almost plays like a long 1 table SnG with a bigger payout, which is nice.

[anarchoi]

No it doesn't.

ITM
9 person 33%
18 - 22%
27 - 19%
45 - 7%
What's your point? Are you arguing for only playing 1 table?

I like the 45-person because the bubble starts when you're still on 2 tables so it's easier to make moves (I do better short handed than full table). I don't play 27 because after you get to the final table the bubble starts and you have to wait for 1/2 the table to be eliminated. 18 almost plays like a long 1 table SnG with a bigger payout, which is nice.

Point is. If you usually play single tables, and doesnt like the big outswings in MTT's - maybe a 18-or 27 player game suits you more than a 45 player game, where there can be long time between the ITM finishes.
I was not trying to say that there were more money in the 27 player tables, but that if you dont like to place out of the money 10 times in a row - then maybe they are a good idea.

Best regards,
David - love the 27 tables - ITM = 50% - ROI = 172 %!!!
Samplesize??? nevermind :-p

[Staresy]

I personally love teh 18s. They play virtually similar to the single tables but the extra batch of weaker players

(a) knock each other out just as quickly, but it is happening on two tables
(b) don't play the transition from full table, to short-handed, back to full table that well, which presents an ideal opportunity to bolster your stack just before the FT
(c) get even more tight around the bubble, because of the extra cash on offer and the time invested means they really don't want to miss out

If you have a solid game, there is no reason why you can't beat these games comfortably at the lower buy-ins and have a nice little boost to your ROI