Quote Originally Posted by zenbitz
Doyle doesn't say to check/FOLD... he just sez check.
So you can check/fold, check/call, or check/raise.
lol, yes i suppose it does seem like doyle is kind of passing the buck on that statement. and even he admits that he struggles at lower stakes w/ normal stacks (i.e. </=100BB). but i think the 'bell goes off' warning that he gives is definitely an encouragement for us to condition ourselves to play very cautiously and to remember that AA and KK win small pots and lose big pots, leaning towards the latter with coordinated boards. so be careful w/ KK on this kind of board i think is key, don't go on autopilot. leading out OOP in a multiway pot is not cautious unless you decide before you bet that it's the last $100 you're going to put in that pot.

PING: doyle also says that when he brings it in for a raise PF, he also bets out 90% of the time on the flop, no matter what the cards or the board, even if he thinks/knows he's behind. he calls it the 'courtesy bet' but most of us have come to refer to it as the continuation bet. that Cbet maintains your image and gets you the action when you need it, and helps you pickup pots you don't deserve along the way. so in this case, you might have found yourself somewhere in the 90% range and pulled the trigger, and i don't have a problem with that, it certainly isn't silly to Cbet. but when it comes down to it, EV is measured in positivity or negativity, not in silliness. so you kept your image up w/ the Cbet, but i'm not sure how +EV that call is on the push.

you failed to mention if either of your KK was a spade, so I will assume that you were all red here for purposes of calculating odds:

Let's say he has a lowly pair of 55 just to start, you're still only 3:2 favorite to call.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1618522
pokenum -h kd kh - 5s 5c -- 6s 7s 8c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 572 57.78 387 39.09 31 3.13 0.593
5s 5c 387 39.09 572 57.78 31 3.13 0.407

Now let's give him a slightly stronger hand, like 87d:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1618523
pokenum -h kd kh - 8d 7d -- 6s 7s 8c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 252 25.45 690 69.70 48 4.85 0.279
8d 7d 690 69.70 252 25.45 48 4.85 0.721

or how about even a set of 777:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1618527
pokenum -h kd kh - 7c 7d -- 6s 7s 8c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 88 8.89 854 86.26 48 4.85 0.113
7c 7d 854 86.26 88 8.89 48 4.85 0.887

Or the nut flush draw + OESD: (A5s)

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1618532
pokenum -h kd kh - as 5s -- 6s 7s 8c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 364 36.77 599 60.51 27 2.73 0.381
As 5s 599 60.51 364 36.77 27 2.73 0.619

Or just the nut draw w/ no straight draw, a coinflip:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1618543
pokenum -h kd kh - as js -- 6s 7s 8c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 7s 6s 8c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Kh 514 51.92 458 46.26 18 1.82 0.528
As Js 458 46.26 514 51.92 18 1.82 0.472

So, if he's on the worst draw that would possibly make sense to push against you there, you're 60/40ish to win. But if he has any thing more than the bottom of that range on that highly coordinated board, you're coinflip or way behind and have bet off 1/3 of your remaining chips OOP.