KJs on the button with low M?

[Stripclubjunkie]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t1680)
UTG (t3553)
MP (t2366)
CO (t7330)
Hero (t2080)
SB (t2991)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K.

Flop: (t600) 7, T, 4 (6 players)

Turn: (t600) 7 (6 players)

River: (t600) 5 (6 players)

Final Pot: t600

Hero has a M=3.4 so i had no choice but to push, i had been stealing from these two before. The SB is a total fish with a VP of 44 through the first 20 hands, but has tightend up. The BB has a VP of 4.3 through 50 hands, so he would fold anything but AQ i think. Thoughts?

[Scuba Chuck]

The converter didn't work well for your hand history. Also, I'm sure we don't need to see any of the action after your flop decision, so why not post so we can avoid any results driven responses.

I never read about M, but I have a general understanding of the concept. I'm curious. Does the concept include other players Ms as well, when making an analysis?

[drmcboy]

hand converter is the curse of my (NL) existence. Aren't we all used to reading the text anyway? I never get the value

@ Scuba - best answer is sorta, at least in Dan's book. Mostly he's using it to indicate what types of hands you should be playing - example - only play scs/small PPs when you and your opps Ms are high - and how to play - example - mostly open push with low M if you are playing.

It's just another way of thinking (maybe expressing thoughts) about deep stacks vs short stacks, fold equity, etc. Dan problaby does not talk enough about how to play against other opps who understand said concepts as well as you do, esp relating to MTT FTs.

[Scuba Chuck]

drmcboy, let me make an extreme example. Let's say the table looked like this:

BB (t7,917)
UTG (t1)
MP (t1)
CO (t1)
Hero (t2080)
SB (t10,000)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K.

Ok, would hero's M still be 3.4 here?

[Scuba Chuck]

I should add, from my point of view (which is purely through $EV analysis, rather than M), what you're asking is, am I correct in my calling standards assumptions? If you've been that aggro, you should be adjusting your calling standards to make sure you are correctly calculating $EV. I would think that looser calls are inevitable, so adjusting your math in your calc is important.

If you send me the original text - HH (pm if you want to keep your sn secret), I'll run it through powertools tonight. I'm kinda interested. KJs is kind of a strong hand in this spot.

[Staresy]

yeah, strictly speaking, M=your stack/sum of all blinds and antes

[Fortune 500]

Yes and no. His true M is 3.4 His adjusted M is much lower, due to the fact that he's at short handed table, adn the blinds come much faster. The comparable stack size isn't important... for the calculation.

Harrington proposes two concepts. M is the total number of blinds and antes you have.

Q is the other concept, and it's the ratio of your stack to the average stack. That's where comparable stack sizes come into play.

[Stripclubjunkie]

#Game No : 3797863972
***** Hand History for Game 3797863972 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $33 Buy-in Trny:21274109 Level:5 Blinds(200/400) - Wednesday, March 22, 14:18:18 ET 2006
Table Fish Nightmare (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: Saint_99 ( $1680 )
Seat 2: Collecteren1 ( $3553 )
Seat 4: noller19791 ( $2366 )
Seat 6: pjosh81 ( $7330 )
Seat 10: mexapinos ( $2991 )
Seat 8: Hero ( $2080 )
Trny:21274109 Level:5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Stripclbjnk [ Jc Kc ]
Collecteren1 folds.
noller19791 folds.
pjosh81 folds.
Stripclbjnk is all-In [2080]
mexapinos folds.
Saint_99 is all-In [1280]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Td, 4s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
Saint_99 shows [ Ad, 8c ] a pair of sevens.
Stripclbjnk shows [ Jc, Kc ] a pair of sevens.
Stripclbjnk wins 400 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of sevens.
Saint_99 wins 3560 chips from the main pot with a pair of sevens with ace kicker.
Game #3797866322 starts.

There you go Scuba

[Scuba Chuck]

Q is the other concept, and it's the ratio of your stack to the average stack. That's where comparable stack sizes come into play.

Whoa, there's another letter?!! Man, this leaves the door open 24 more times.

[drmcboy]

also he adjusts for # of players at table.

But no, other players' stack sizes don't go into the actual calc. He might say something like "Your M is 4, and the BB's M is 18, should you push?" but the M calc doesn't invlove opp's stack.

In your example, the opps with t1(M<1) would be in the 'dead zone' and he would advise a push with any two to them.

It's for sure worth your time to pick them up.

At the actual post, I think you guys taking these PokerAce numbers or whatever from one tourney and acting like it's a substitute for a read is silly. If it's 200/400, your stack is 2k, you have KJs, and it's folded to you on the button, yes, push. You don't even need a read. If they are so tight they will fold AK, great. If they'll call with 64o, that's great too.

[Stripclubjunkie]

He wouldn't fold AK to my push thats for sure.