Interesting hand

[nickthefool]

$3 Rebuy tournament on VC Poker, rebuy period has ended though. I thought it was interesting how this hand played out, will post later play after some opinions on what to do when i hit the 3 on the turn?

MTT Table 9 8012587-57 Holdem No Limit 300/600
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Hand Start.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 1 : gigantes has $15,130
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 2 : mosco has $10,160
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 3 : ynotxxx has $14,950
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 4 : the-oneeye has $15,370
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 5 : UKLandlord has $19,670
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 7 : CJRAID84 has $18,430
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 8 : dag808 has $10,845
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 9 : nickthefool has $18,340
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : CJRAID84 is the dealer.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : dag808 posted small blind.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : nickthefool posted big blind.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Game [57] started with 8 players.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Mar 22 18:24:40] : Seat 9 : nickthefool has Kc 3s
[Mar 22 18:24:45] : gigantes folded.
[Mar 22 18:24:47] : mosco folded.
[Mar 22 18:24:48] : ynotxxx called 600
[Mar 22 18:24:49] : the-oneeye folded.
[Mar 22 18:24:52] : UKLandlord called 600
[Mar 22 18:24:52] : CJRAID84 folded.
[Mar 22 18:24:54] : dag808 folded.
[Mar 22 18:24:57] : nickthefool checked.
[Mar 22 18:24:58] : Dealing flop.
[Mar 22 18:24:58] : Board cards [8s 4d 7d]
[Mar 22 18:25:01] : nickthefool checked.
[Mar 22 18:25:04] : ynotxxx checked.
[Mar 22 18:25:06] : UKLandlord checked.
[Mar 22 18:25:07] : Dealing turn.
[Mar 22 18:25:07] : Board cards [8s 4d 7d 3h]
[Mar 22 18:25:14] : nickthefool ??? (pot = 2100)

[WildBobAA]

continue checking?

[drmcboy]

the same thing you'd do if it was a Q. It's great that you've drawn out against ducks but probably not very profitable.

[Sprayed]

Um, I'd say check again.

[chardrian]

I'll be the devil's advocate here and say a bet of 1200-1500 is just fine. Looks like everyone will fold and you'll take it down, which is a nice boost to your stack. If you get resistance, it is not so hard to fold.

[ElGato55]

I agree with char, but only becuase I'm the type of player who loves taking down these little pots. I mean any 8 or 7 wouldve bet that flop so I'm not too worried about that, and I don't see any set/overpair/two pair/straight not betting at that flop with the amount of draws on the board so I see nothing wrong with a decent bet and like char said its very easy to fold to any resistance. This is just how I play though I mean you really don't need the chips that badly but I like taking down these pots when people are showing a lot of weakness.

[zenbitz]

I like just checking these down. I hate getting slowplayed, and betting here invites a raise from 56, 2 diamonds, or someone pretending to have one of the above.

The argument for betting is that you might fold a 4 or 7 maybe. Typically, though you will get called/raised by people who actually have something, while folding junk.

"Don't buy a pot you own" might apply here...although you might not own it either.

I might call small river bet though.

[nickthefool]

My thoughts :

Neither player seemed to interested in the flp, so a bet may well just take it down, and while i dont need the chips desperately, the pot is more than 10% of my stack and it would be a nice boost.

So, I bet out 1200. They both call. River comes 3c. Your play?

[johnny_fish]

My thoughts :

Neither player seemed to interested in the flp, so a bet may well just take it down, and while i dont need the chips desperately, the pot is more than 10% of my stack and it would be a nice boost.

So, I bet out 1200. They both call. River comes 3c. Your play?

Either check-call, or bet-fold. You can call a small reraise. Boat pwns you.

[drmcboy]

I mean any 8 or 7 wouldve bet that flop

This is silly. I check call here with something like T8 all the time.

Any diamond draw is likely calling, straight draw maybe, then you have to give them a free river since you have no idea where you're at.

Just check.

River I lean to check call. If they both had busted draws they aren't calling but may bluff at it. if they weirdly slowplayed something it saves you a few chips.

[chardrian]

Well I might be too aggressive - but dr... you seem way too passive.

The only way to win big pots and get away from monsters against a decent player is to bet early. I can't imagine checking that flop with 8T.

River is 3c... bet again. The calls smell like guys who played draws and/or guys who were too weak to bet the flop with hands like 8T. If someone does happen to have a boat, you'll get a raise and can decide what to do then. But don't let the weak 8T etc. get off cheap by checking the river.

[drmcboy]

I can't imagine checking that flop with 8T.

this is why you're paying me off with 4th pair on the turn.

You are never going to win a big pot here from me when I have T8. I will win one from you check calling with my 83, tho, when you lead into me on the river.

Betting the turn here IMO is classic dark tunnel bluff, especially because you're advcating leading the river too.

23) The dark tunnel bluff (from HOH2 - told to me by gabe):
"..you don't where you stand, you don't really know what you're doing, but it feels more active to bet than not, so you put more money in the pot. Eventually you've lost a big pot where you never really had much of a chance.

The cure for this syndrome is simple: stay out of dark tunnels. always know why you are making a bet, and what you expect to gain."

[chardrian]

nah - betting with TcQc here would be a dark tunnel bluff. In this hand with all that passivity on the flop I think I am ahead with my 3s - I do know where I think I stand (best hand) and I do know what I am doing (betting to take it down and make those overcards get out and/or betting to get some information on how my opps play).

Don't forget your weak check on the flop and then calling with 8T on the turn here is also why I'd be getting paid with my 3K on the river - you really gonna fold to my value bet on the river with an 8 hi board here??

[drmcboy]

you know where you're at with QT, you're bluffing.

If you're decided you have the best hand here, fine. Point of my post was to say that's a mistake against me, I'm out there. If you think I suck, it's cool. You have 5 outs.

I might call on the river, but not if you're made it a big pot.

[chardrian]

You know (or at least should know) that I don't think you suck.

The point of my post was to say that picking up small pots is a good thing.

In the end it's probably a moot point, cuz I really doubt you would limp in with 8T anyways.

[nickthefool]

chard - we seem to think alike

basically i felt flop checking round meant nobody had a made hand

turn calls had me slightly confused - but there were definately enough possible draws on the board for both to be drawing

river i bet out 2k, 1st guy pushed over the top for 11k ish more to call. if i call total pot is ~32k (these numbers from memory, may be out slightly)

anyone call?

[drmcboy]

hmmm, good question. maybe if one more had limped in, and I thought the table was very weak.

One thing we should bring up is pair + draw might check call. I would lead with that, but some people could reasonably play Xd8d passively on this board.

The check calldown I'm talking about here is a play I use as sort of an excuse to play hands like T8 a little more. I'm mostly looking to add a little value - meaning 5% of the time or whatever I'm flopping a monster isn't enough reason to play, but if I can win 5-10% more with a hand like TP playing a small pot, I get more chances to try and flop the monster.

[chardrian]

chard - we seem to think alike

basically i felt flop checking round meant nobody had a made hand

turn calls had me slightly confused - but there were definately enough possible draws on the board for both to be drawing

river i bet out 2k, 1st guy pushed over the top for 11k ish more to call. if i call total pot is ~32k (these numbers from memory, may be out slightly)

anyone call?

blech - his push makes the "MONSTER" alarm go off in my head. Boat or a slowplayed 56 are pwning you right now. I need a good read that my opp will bluff here to call - otherwise there is no real reason to put your healthy stack at risk.