short stack line check.....

[konahead]

Had been card-dead for most of the tourney - doubled up once with big slick against pocket queens and caught a king on the flop, but blinds were killin me - couldn't steal cuz big stack's in every hand, calling short stack pushes, and winning. This was first hand he'd folded in a while, and UTG was limping decent cards - but not great cards.

Do you fold, complete, or push preflop? I was 90% certain I'd be called if I pushed preflop, based on prior action. Then - do you push the flop, or check/fold your draw? Very short stacked at this point.....

#Game No : 3803559481
***** Hand History for Game 3803559481 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny:21301501 Level:5 Blinds(200/400) - Thursday, March 23, 10:08:08 ET 2006
Table Speed Norfolk Island (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 5: bgroves ( $2010 )
Seat 7: jontonmook ( $1830 )
Seat 10: browns08td ( $6380 )
Seat 3: konahead ( $1580 )
Seat 4: rwbentley ( $5019 )
Seat 9: jacobbj ( $3181 )
Trny:21301501 Level:5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to konahead [ Jh 9c ]
bgroves calls [400].
jontonmook folds.
jacobbj folds.
browns08td folds.
konahead calls [200].
rwbentley checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, Ts, Qc ]
konahead is all-In [1180]

good or bad? what's your play on this hand?

[Stripclubjunkie]

If it was me then id push it for sure...But i'm just a fish with 3k$...

[drmcboy]

I either complete or fold pre flop. I'm ok with either.

certainly push flop.

[Scuba Chuck]

One thing that's really cool about being a short stack at this blind level with this many players still in the game, is that it's very very difficult to make an $EV mistake. Just something to think about. I think preflop is very very questionable, flop is a must.

[GatorJH]

I think preflop is very very questionable

This is something I have been struggling with lately. When your stack diminishes and you are in the SB do you still get into push/fold mode or is there a range of hands that you can/should limp in with? Personally, I think this is one of those marginal hands that I may limp into if I have a good feeling that the BB will check. Why is that questionable?

Is it because hands like this are so tough to play post flop? If so, I am not sure I buy into that as if you hit the flop you are pushing and if you miss you are folding - pretty easy decision.

Is it because you are giving up too much of your chip stack on a hand that you will have to fold when you miss (which will happen more often than hitting it)?

[drmcboy]

yeah I was really torn pre flop. At 100/200 I'm pumped for multiway with J9 here and a chance to gambool. 200/400 is like right on my line.

Do you give up FE going from 1300 to 1100? prolly not much.

[Scuba Chuck]

Do you give up FE going from 1300 to 1100? prolly not much.

I think you are only considering part of the equation. First off, I think you are potentially giving up some FE against 2 to your left and 3 to your left.

But more importantly, I think we should consider the value of the chips gained vs chips lost. If you're assuming that you think hero has pretty much no FE with your above statement, then I certainly think there's a potential for a mistake for completing here. You hope to be called, and you want to double up. 1300 translates to 2600. 1100 translates to 2200. So, you're not giving up 200, but 400 chips.

Now, how do we calculate the EV (chip-wise) to limping here. If you can make a compelling case that limping here is worth over 200 chips, then you have a case - I guess. But, what is going on with an UTG limper putting in 20% of his stack. Even if this doesn't scare you, you should feel pretty certain that our card equity sucks against his. Furthermore, there's a third player in the hand. Preflop, I doubt we have 33% pot equity. Please do not read that I am saying we're not getting proper odds to call, because we are. Assuming BB knocks, we only need to win the hand 16% of the time for this completion to be +cEV. I would think we have at least 16% card equity preflop. But cEV does not equal $EV.

There isn't much of a debate, IMO, cos I think hero's position really sucks. So calling isn't atrocious. But, I do think he has considerable FE against the BB's of the next two hands.