JJ early in SnG

[Buzz]

Hi ... was hoping for some opinions here. JJ early pos, relatively early in a single table SnG.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB (t1940)
BB (t2990)
Hero (t2395)
UTG+1 (t510)
MP1 (t1430)
MP2 (t3030)
CO (t1105)
Button (t1600)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises to t120, UTG+1 calls t120, 3 folds, Button calls t120, 1 fold, BB raises to t615, Hero calls t495, UTG+1 calls t495, Button folds.

Flop: (t1980) 9, T, J (3 players)
BB bets t2375 (All-In),

What would you do here? BB prior play seems a little loose but not insanely aggressive. Appreciate any advice, thanks.

[Staresy]

I simply can't fold here. If he shows me KQ, good for him - I'll try and pair the board. Chances are I'm seeing something like A K or maybe A Q and I'll sweat on him hitting.

Personally, with his re-raise pre-flop, I would put him on QQ+ and have him drawing to 6 outs, or 2 if he holds AA!

[taipan168]

G'day mate! Good to see another Aussie on FTR.

Early in the tourney, I would probably have folded JJ preflop. That sort of a re-raise from the BB looks like QQ-AA or maybe AK. No need to take a risk this early.

As played, this is an insta-call. If BB has QQ-AA, given the size of the pot a push is basically his/her only option to protect against a flush or straight draw. It's not impossible (ie. if the guy is a donk), but I doubt that KQ would make this sort of a preflop re-raise early. Could also be a very badly overbet flush draw. Even if BB has KQ, you have 7 outs on the turn to make a full house or quads and 10 on the river if you don't hit on the turn.

[Staresy]

Forgot to say as well that I prolly limp JJ from UTG this early.

sorry to go off thread a little, but my cousin lives in Sydney. Think I am heading out for a few weeks early next year to see him (plus watch us retain the ashes in your own backyard )

[drmcboy]

limp it.

but as played fold pre flop, or push if you want due to loose read and the dead money out, call is bizzare. You can't play for set here and this screams over pair.

Certainly call on flop.

[givememyleg]

I fold preflop, too early for me to get involved. The only way I would want to continue is if I hit my set on the flop, which you did. His bet looks like a semi bluff, and I am calling all day. JJ is basically a set hand that early in the tourn. The only thing is that it is a scary board and he will prolly have outs if the board doesn't pair.

I just don't think you can fold here.

[fjuanl]

ew i really dont like folding preflop. i think i would let it go after the reraise. sometimes you can get trapped when the flop is all low cards and he has QQ+

on the flop - I'll call but QQ does have some outs (or Ad Kd)

[Buzz]

OK great advice thanks all. My problem seems to be at the moment I fold when I should call and call when I should fold.

I did fold - it seemed to me he was saying I have KQ. Everytime I call that villian shows KQ and I feel like I've donked off my stack again. So this time I chose to fight another day and folded.

Villian had QJ and went on to win with a pair of Jacks

All went downhill from here, didnt get another decent hand, stayed patient until blinds got to 50/100, tried to steal a few blinds (unsuccesfully) and ended up busting when my stack was down to 600 with an A8s push

[drmcboy]

sick. If you never fold top set, you won't be making a big mistake. Even if you're beat, you have re draws to the full. But the point is there are too many hands that you beat that can make the same play with a board like that - 99-AA to start with.

[daluchy]

Atleast in SnGs, if I have top set, I'm doing my best to get all my money in there asap.

Only fish call pre-flop with KQ or 87 (or in this case QJ). You want people to be putting their money into this flop for you.

So overall, limp JJ UTG early, fold to the pre-flop reraise, get your stack in their on the flop pronto!

[vqc]

GOd i hate getting to these posts late =P
everyone has already given adivce.

One thing that u might want to keep in mind tho.
PUt villian on a range of ahnds. Thikn of wat he would be raising with, and give a reason as to why he would be pushing this flop?
How often do made hands open shove flops? Very rarely I would assume. In that case what tyypes of hands DO open shove? Given those hands, how do you think u match up?

Another thing is
when playing sets, it turns out that in a shallow stacked format if u hav ea set on the flop and the pot grows to be a big pot u are almost always corrent in calling.

[Buzz]

Again, thanks for the good advice, I re-read all of it fresh tonight

Taipan - hiya, how many Aussies are there on FTR?

Oh and Staresy ... dreaming, Ashes are coming back here in Jan 07 for another 16 years

[givememyleg]

ew i really dont like folding preflop.

I know technically JJ is the 4th best starting hand in hold em, but is it really worth calling here? The range of hands that would make this kind of play (usually) are QQ+, or AK. As it went here, he has 2300 to start, invested 120 chips, and faced a raise of 500. That is 720 chips (about 1/3 of your stack) when most of the time you would be behind. I can understand at lower limits people can make these types of moves with a wider range of hands, but is it weak that I would consider folding preflop here? Let's consider it is still early and we have no reads on villian, more opt to folding then?

I can understand that the blinds are low at 15/30, and a stack of about 1700 is still strong, but it just seems to me that most of the time you're behind preflop.

[midas06]

I thought I'd see at least one post saying call, if anything just to keep your hourly rate high. No?

[taipan168]

Taipan - hiya, how many Aussies are there on FTR?

Not sure - I mostly post in this forum and there is a guy from Melbourne whose SN I forget, midas is from NZ (ya I know it's not Aust but still Australasia) and there may be one or two others.

Back on topic, I agree with givememyleg that this is a fold pre-flop to the re-raise. Unlike others I don't hate the UTG raise, I think that limping, particularly at the lower levels, is a recipe for allowing people to flop crazy flush/straight draws or 2 pair cheaply. I like to make them pay to see a flop with rubbish.