22s. ITM. RIVERRRRR.

[vqc]

***** Hand History for Game 3943872456 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $22 Buy-in Trny:21957670 Level:7 Blinds-Antes(400/800-25) - Tuesday, April 11, 00:18:49 ET 2006
Table Speed #1188387 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 7: TheBoneHer ( $8439 )
Seat 6: mattyj4u ( $8876 )
Seat 8: bashley111 ( $2685 )
Trny:21957670 Level:7
Blinds-Antes(400/800-25)
mattyj4u posts ante [25].
TheBoneHer posts ante [25].
bashley111 posts ante [25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 2h 3c ]
bashley111 folds.
mattyj4u calls [400].
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, Ad, 2c ]
mattyj4u checks.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
mattyj4u checks.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
mattyj4u bets [3200].
TheBoneHer ??????

Both players are reelbigfish.

[dan]

i would push, only 67 and 36 beat u. This idiot could have anything.

[Phantaroth]

???

What beats you here? No flushes... You lose to 3 6... ???

Am i missing anything? :X

[MAX]

Push seems obvious. Worse hands will call if they're fishee. Can you give him credit for a bigger str8? How often does he have a bigger str8 in relation to the times he has something else he can't fold? He will have Ax/trips/2pair/pp that he can't fold more often than 63 or 67.

edit: sorry to pile on, didn't see the other posts.

[Scuba Chuck]

I think folding is fine. You're really only playing to chop the pot. There's a shorty out there. I might lean towards calling depending on how I felt if I was in your shoes.

BTW, pushing is not very good with shorty out there.

Edit: Actually, pushing is not very good for a lot of other reasons as well. Like, is he calling a push with a worse hand? The more I think about this hand, the more I think letting this one go is just fine.

[Warpe]

I think folding is fine. You're really only playing to chop the pot. There's a shorty out there. I might lean towards calling depending on how I felt if I was in your shoes.

BTW, pushing is not very good with shorty out there.

Edit: Actually, pushing is not very good for a lot of other reasons as well. Like, is he calling a push with a worse hand? The more I think about this hand, the more I think letting this one go is just fine.

Um...vqc has a straight.

[Scuba Chuck]

I think folding is fine. You're really only playing to chop the pot. There's a shorty out there. I might lean towards calling depending on how I felt if I was in your shoes.

BTW, pushing is not very good with shorty out there.

Edit: Actually, pushing is not very good for a lot of other reasons as well. Like, is he calling a push with a worse hand? The more I think about this hand, the more I think letting this one go is just fine.

Um...vqc has a straight.

You're being funny right? Otherwise, I don't get it.

[Warpe]

I think folding is fine. You're really only playing to chop the pot.

Um...vqc has a straight.

You're being funny right? Otherwise, I don't get it.

No, I'm trying to understand why you would advocate folding when vqc has on opportunity to take a commanding chip lead. What's he got to be afraid of?

[TLR]

VCQ wrote

Both players are reelbigfish

Given that I think I call, he could have 67/36, but he could also have 2 pair.
I think most likely you are splitting.

BTW I think you should bet the flop here, he completed the blinds, about 70% the flop missed him

[Scuba Chuck]

No, I'm trying to understand why you would advocate folding when vqc has on opportunity to take a commanding chip lead. What's she got to be afraid of?

Here's two clues.

Total number of players : 3
Seat 7: TheBoneHer ( $8439 )
Seat 6: mattyj4u ( $8876 )
Seat 8: bashley111 ( $2685 )

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, Ad, 2c ]
mattyj4u checks.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
mattyj4u checks.
TheBoneHer checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]

What's the best hand? What's the second best hand?
Do you think he's bluffing here? If not, what's the best case scenario?

PS - we should add that vqc played the turn poorly

[Warpe]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 2h 3c ]
bashley111 folds.
mattyj4u calls [400].
TheBoneHer checks.

Is villain doing this with 63?

[Scuba Chuck]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 2h 3c ]
bashley111 folds.
mattyj4u calls [400].
TheBoneHer checks.

Is villain doing this with 63?

Is he doing it with 67?

[gabe]

What's she got to be afraid of?

hes not a she!

[givememyleg]

You have to at least call. Folding seems kind of ridiculous the way it was played out. Maaaaaaybe he would limp in with 67 sooooted, but I highly doubt 36. My guess is you are chopping this pot.

By the note on the bottom saying they are 30 lb bass, I would probably just call just incase he does have you beat. It is probably very rare that he does, but my guess is you are chopping the pot anyway. And if he does happen to have you beat, you still have chips to play with vs these fish. If you have him beat you net 4000 more chips, and are well on your way to winning. I don't see how if you have him beat how he would call a push with that board anyway... calling seems good to me.

[Warpe]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 2h 3c ]
bashley111 folds.
mattyj4u calls [400].
TheBoneHer checks.

Is villain doing this with 63?

Is he doing it with 67?

Hmmm.

So...worst outcome, you push and get stacked, best outcome, you push and cripple villain, and you're saying why take the risk of putting shortie in second place if villain ain't bluffing...

[Scuba Chuck]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheBoneHer [ 2h 3c ]
bashley111 folds.
mattyj4u calls [400].
TheBoneHer checks.

Is villain doing this with 63?

Is he doing it with 67?

Hmmm.

So...worst outcome, you push and get stacked, best outcome, you push and cripple villain, and you're saying why take the risk of putting shortie in second place if villain ain't bluffing...

LOL, he's not bluffing.

[Warpe]

What's she got to be afraid of?

hes not a she!

sorry...damn avatar confusion again. (I'm not a she either..I think if I was my avatar I'd be playing with my boobs all day)

[Scuba Chuck]

You have to at least call.

My guess is you are chopping this pot.

LOL, good poker strategy.

I should add that calling isn't atrocious. Pushing is atrocious. But folding is not bad either.

Also, isn't this just a simple math problem? If you call, and tie, you win 800 chips. If you call and lose, you lose 3200. So you have to be right 25% of the time to breakeven.

[givememyleg]

You have to at least call.

My guess is you are chopping this pot.

LOL, good poker strategy.

I should add that calling isn't atrocious. Pushing is atrocious. But folding is not bad either.

Also, isn't this just a simple math problem? If you call, and tie, you win 800 chips. If you call and lose, you lose 3200. So you have to be right 25% of the time to breakeven.

When you take my words out of context it sounds pretty stupid... the paragraph following the second sentence explains my thinking..... so thanks. How can you put villian on 36 or 67. Folding here doesn't make any sense to me. I see what you're saying about the math... BUT he could have 2 pair, or played an Ace really stupid, why wouldn't you call here?

[Scuba Chuck]

When you take my words out of context it sounds pretty stupid... the paragraph following the second sentence explains my thinking..... so thanks. How can you put villian on 36 or 67. Folding here doesn't make any sense to me. I see what you're saying about the math... BUT he could have 2 pair, or played an Ace really stupid, why wouldn't you call here?

Look at the way he played this hand. The odds that this is a bluff or another poorly played hand is way below 5%. If you're calling here hoping that it's a bluff, it won't offset the times he has a better hand. This hand is just basic hand reading.

Also, I took two of your statements, and put them closer together, so that you can see what you're saying.

I should have said this, and this probably crystallizes my point a little better. Does anyone see the the benefit of gambooling 3200 to win 800? I mean, would you take these odds in a casino?

[GatorJH]

I am with Chuck here. The only hands that call a push either chop the pot or have you beat so your gain on a push is zero. I can see calling because I think you win this pot outright at least 25% of the time.

If villian has a straight why such a large bet? Is this a case of a fish overbetting a made pot? Has villian shown the tendency to over bet on made hands? If so, I can certainly entertain the possibility of folding as I think a 67 holding is more feasible than a 63 holding.

[Miffed22001]

why would ever not call/push here

are u all going to suggest that opp called with 63s/o in the sb too?

Utter madness. Call every fucking day

[GatorJH]

why would ever not call/push here

are u all going to suggest that opp called with 63s/o in the sb too?

Utter madness. Call every fucking day

Like I said, I would have to have a VERY strong read on villian to fold here, but I still believe that a call is MUCH better than a push.

I think that, with this board, the number of times your push gets called by 67 is greater than the number of times that your push gets called by some other holding that you win (not chop) against.