push from the stars million

[gabe]

there are 49 left, i am about 45th. table has seen me build up from 4k to 125k, and the last 3 orbits or so i have pushed everytime its folded to me on the button or cutoff. this just seems like a standard push, right?

PokerStars Game #4577980376: Tournament #21922378, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (7500/15000) - 2006/04/09 - 22:40:36 (ET)
Table '21922378 563' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Per-18 (635157 in chips)
Seat 2: Rob 1973 (585845 in chips)
Seat 3: C-Donkey77 (190186 in chips)
Seat 5: gp333 (98080 in chips)
Seat 6: Dr.Dre'del (110200 in chips)
Seat 7: thinair56 (94811 in chips) out of hand (moved from another table into small blind)
Seat 8: BeechSquad (259140 in chips)
Seat 9: angiesboy (171673 in chips)
Per-18: posts the ante 750
Rob 1973: posts the ante 750
C-Donkey77: posts the ante 750
gp333: posts the ante 750
Dr.Dre'del: posts the ante 750
BeechSquad: posts the ante 750
angiesboy: posts the ante 750
BeechSquad: posts small blind 7500
angiesboy: posts big blind 15000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
DEALT 86 OF HEARTS!!
Per-18: folds
Rob 1973: folds
C-Donkey77: folds
gp333: raises 82330 to 97330 and is all-in

3 people to act behind me, and i think my M is less than 4

[mcatdog]

Gabe,

Were you dealt cards in this hand?

[drmcboy]

I was leaning to you could mabye fold 62ish, but meh. Gambooool!

[gabe]

sorry.....i copied it from someone that had posted it without the hand

its edited

[drmcboy]

oh, easy push. I liked it better without the cards though.

[chardrian]

I am ok with the push - but since you have done so the last three orbits, I would be a little more hesitant here than I normally would. At this stage of a tournament I just look at BigBlinds - all you need to do is have over 5x and any push will still usually steal the blinds. You can afford to be blinded one more orbit, so it really comes down to whether or not you think you will have a better opportunity than this within the next ten hands - you could but you might very well not.

[Warpe]

I'll be the contrarian and say wait for a better hand...but I'm weak/tight.

[chardrian]

I'll be the contrarian and say wait for a better hand...but I'm weak/tight.

I don't think there is a wrong move here - waiting has merit.

[drmcboy]

yeah waiting is OK too. I still like a push, especially in the million, these shorties don't want to call it off with AT.

[chardrian]

Haha - I like how this post has been viewed over 60 times, but only has 3 votes.

[drmcboy]

I know - voting is anonymous, losers! Gabe is such a stud no one wants to tell him he is teh crazy.

[TanO]

better to push this than a hand like Ax where you'll be dominated by something like AQ... i like it

[mcatdog]

better to push this than a hand like Ax where you'll be dominated by something like AQ... i like it

This is such a misconception. 86s is really a terrible hand, Ax fares better against any reasonable calling range.

[chardrian]

better to push this than a hand like Ax where you'll be dominated by something like AQ... i like it

This is such a misconception. 86s is really a terrible hand, Ax fares better against any reasonable calling range.

Well - it really depends on what your opp's calling range actually is. But I agree it's misconceived because you forget the times you actually steal the blinds with Ax. And you remember the many many times you actually are called and lose when your opponent dominates you with an A better kicker (which is in almost everyone's calling range).

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I posted this comment in your blog. I don't have the problem with the cards you pushed, but I have problem with the timing. I was watching you while you played. The previous three orbits you pushed when it was folded to you. If I'm not mistaken, when you pushed, the same person happened to be in the BB each time. Any competent player is going to notice what you're doing, especially one that is continually having their BB attacked. Most people are going to loosen their calling standards considerably in this situation, and because of that I probably would've let that hand go and either waited for a better one or at least a situation where different players were in the blinds.

[zenbitz]

and the last 3 orbits or so i have pushed everytime its folded to me on the button or cutoff. this just seems like a standard push, right?

No, this is a fold if you have pushed EVERY time it's folded to you. I want at least J-high.
You have very little folding equity, and everyone knows you are pushing any two. You are basically saying "I am a 2:1 dog, take me".

[TanO]

better to push this than a hand like Ax where you'll be dominated by something like AQ... i like it

This is such a misconception. 86s is really a terrible hand, Ax fares better against any reasonable calling range.

Well - it really depends on what your opp's calling range actually is. But I agree it's misconceived because you forget the times you actually steal the blinds with Ax. And you remember the many many times you actually are called and lose when your opponent dominates you with an A better kicker (which is in almost everyone's calling range).

Sometimes you just gotta push crap when you really dont like it and get lucky, looks to me like this is one of those times. Limping isn't an option and folding and then going bust to the blinds in the next 4 minutes is an equally crap option. It's time to push a hand that you hate and hope to get lucky by either getting the blinds or better yet getting called by anything other than a PP and hoping to catch some piece of the flop, then you're back in a situation with chips to make moves with.

Just my opinion obviously, feel free to slap it down while you get blinded out waiting for a bigger hand

[gabe]

i think if i didnt bust on this particular hand, i wouldn't think twice about it.

theres about 27000 in the pot, which is about 1/4 of my stack.

there are 3 people behind me. if they all call with the top 5% of their hands, i get called 15% of the time. if i'm getting called less than 25% of the time, its a +EV.

right?

[AHiltz]

But due to your agression in past orbits the likelyhood of a call goes up. That means that your EV could very well be -.

I don't think you have a choice with your stack though. GAMBOOL

[gabe]

i dont think im more likely to be called since they dont have big stacks. if any of them had 500k+ i would fold i think. but they can all be hurt badly if they call and lose.

anyway i pushed got called by AJ. i hit an 8 on the turn!

but they flopped trip aces

[Xo_Sirk_oX]

Any competent player is going to notice what you're doing, especially one that is continually having their BB attacked

Agreed
I was watching as it happened and litterly went WTF on this hand.. since you had done so many time before. thought it was great you where building back up but once your cards where shown I was a little puzzled, I thought you actually had a hand and not trying to blind-steal/pray for the best.

[mcatdog]

Just my opinion obviously, feel free to slap it down while you get blinded out waiting for a bigger hand

I think you misunderstood. I'm of course pushing this hand, but if I get A2o I'm pushing that as well and I'm even happier about it. It's just a much better hand than 86s.

You really have to go all-in here, I'm curious whether the people saying "You've pushed too many times already, fold this one" have actually done the math? They have to start calling him with things like Q9 before this is a bad push. I don't care how many times you've gone all-in, most players aren't capable of calling with that, even if they put you on any 2 and would be correct to do so.

I don't think there is a wrong move here...

I think there is, these short stack push questions are really just math problems.

[drmcboy]

I don't care how many times you've gone all-in, most players aren't capable of calling with that, even if they put you on any 2 and would be correct to do so.

[chardrian]

I don't care how many times you've gone all-in, most players aren't capable of calling with that, even if they put you on any 2 and would be correct to do so.

I disagree. If you are stealing blinds every orbit, "most players" tend to get more and more aggravated until they lose patience and make a stand. You can't get upset when they do exactly that and you are holding the butt end of the deal.

I don't think there is a wrong move here...

I think there is, these short stack push questions are really just math problems.

usually they are just math problems. But there is context here. Gabe's previous pushes are relevant. His push here is fine because he needs the blinds to survive, even though his opp's calling ranges are now probably lower he still could very well get a fold if they both have trash, and it is a decent cracking hand so even if he gets called by what most likely will be over cards he has a decent shot to double up. But his opps calling ranges are probably lower now so waiting until he actually does have a better hand is fine too because then he will actually have a shot at being ahead percentage wise to double up if called and the call will be likely as he does have an image of a blind stealer.

[drmcboy]

if we're brining in context, you have to address the fact that this is the MILLION and most players are desperate to move up another pay out spot. I'm with MCat, if someone shows me QT here after calling I'm stunned.

[TanO]

I think you misunderstood.

You're right I did get the wrong end of the stick, like you I'd also be happier pushing any ace rather than 86s.

[gabe]

if we're brining in context, you have to address the fact that this is the MILLION and most players are desperate to move up another pay out spot. I'm with MCat, if someone shows me QT here after calling I'm stunned.

yea...even KQ i would be pretty surprised. it might look like a maniacal push to some, but i think thats just being results oriented.

[jmontis]

it's tough, i saw people doing this in the 1k buyin dise masters, and getting called by A2 from BB etc... the REAL good players are going to snap you off with any kind of likely equity edge

even though 86 wouldn't be that big of a dog, it is a dog nonetheless