Two painful 200NL Hands

[aislephive]

Hand 1: This guy was at 50/10, one hand I bet out with 55 on a ATx flop and he insta-check minraised me and I mucked. I didn't raise the flop because he was a calling station, so I called his min-bet and caught my jack. He check-raised me and I was pretty sure I was ahead, but wanted to just call and let him maybe bluff the river. River is a blank and he checks to me which makes me think I have to have the best hand, so I make a value bet of $75 into about a $120 pot, and he moves me all in for my last $61 bucks which I certainly didn't expect, do I call the rest off getting monster odds? I think he is donkish enough to make this raise with QJ or KJ, but it's a tough spot to be in.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($249)
Hero ($197)
SB ($167)
BB ($437.01)
UTG ($87.63)
MP ($362.71)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, J. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, 2 folds, MP calls $7.

Flop: ($21) 4, T, 3 (2 players)
MP bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($25) J (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $17, MP raises to $50, Hero calls $33.

River: ($125) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $75, MP raises $301.71 (All-In), Hero ????

Hand 2: Villain is pretty loose preflop, but hasn't shown down a hand, he also hasn't gotten out of line yet either. I figured him for a flush draw and he easily could have the 9dxd and rivered the straight. Hard to fold getting massive odds but is it a profitable call here to see if maybe he is bluffing or being retarded with two pair?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($217.50)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($197.15)
MP ($378.69)
Button ($46.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 6. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($8) K, 6, 7 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, UTG folds, MP calls $5, SB folds.

Turn: ($18) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $12, MP calls $12.

River: ($42) T (2 players)
Hero bets $25, MP raises to $50, Hero ????

[dsaxton]

First hand, fold to the turn check-raise. How often do you honestly think top pair is good here, and how much do you want to call off just to find out? If you do call, folding to the river check-raise is clear.

Second hand, do you think he's ever raising without a 9 on this river after you make such a strong bet? Seems like a definite bet-fold situation. I also don't understand why you represented the 9 yourself. Make a smaller bet that he can call with two pair.

Edit: Check-calling river is probably better in the second hand.

[sunfunbunch]

Hand 1: Calling that flop was pretty weak. Reraise the flop 'bet' and then bet a nice amount on the turn. If he STILL raises you then it's an easier lay down. yes?

If you want to keep the pot under contorl, then just check the turn if checked into.

Hand 2: Just check call or check/fold the river (depending on bet size).

[andr3w321]

There's no way you are ahead by the time the river comes in either of these hands.

[bdawg56kg]

1) fold to turn cr. When a calling station cr's you, it's time to bail unless you have a monster. River is a fold, even though you're getting nice odds. I would just check behind here.

2) i wouldn't like it, but I'd call the minraise, partly for pot odds, and partly for info. I think you should check this river and call a reasonable bet or fold to a big one. You say you thought he had a flush draw, then why not check and give him a chance to bluff at it? Also, get into the habit of betting full pot (or overbet if they are bad) on flop and turn in these unraised pots.

I think you really need to exercise pot control more, then you won't be put to these disgusting decisions. You should also have a general plan for what you will do if villian calls or raises.

[aislephive]

Hand 1: Calling that flop was pretty weak. Reraise the flop 'bet' and then bet a nice amount on the turn. If he STILL raises you then it's an easier lay down. yes?

If you want to keep the pot under contorl, then just check the turn if checked into.

Hand 2: Just check call or check/fold the river (depending on bet size).

Against this player there was no point to raising because he was going to call. Against most players I raise here every time, but I'm not going to do it if I know he is calling. It's throwing money away.

Check folding the river would be bad, and check-calling isn't much better. Betting and folding to a raise is much better unless the opponent is really aggro and I could pick off a bluff.

[bdawg56kg]

I figured him for a flush draw

Check folding the river would be bad, and check-calling isn't much better. Betting and folding to a raise is much better unless the opponent is really aggro and I could pick off a bluff.

I don't get it. Plz explain?

[aislephive]

I figured him for a flush draw

Check folding the river would be bad, and check-calling isn't much better. Betting and folding to a raise is much better unless the opponent is really aggro and I could pick off a bluff.

I don't get it. Plz explain?

Sounds strange for sure, but he could also have a hand like two pair here where he would maybe check-behind but would call a river bet. I see your point of checking to let him bluff, but I didn't think he was aggro enough to give the bait.

Folding to the turn c/r on the first hand is pretty weak unless the guy was a total set farmer. This guy was pretty wild overall which was why I called.

Both hands I lost btw, villain had TJ the first hand and the second hand villain had Q9d.