Tough river decision with 2-pair.

[johnnyBuz]

wasn't convinced he had the straight until his river bet. i don't think he was bluffing it either.

***** Hand History for Game 4347456351 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, May 24, 01:29:40 ET 2006
Table Table 108053 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 5: MadMan3535 ( $32.25 )
Seat 6: WEENBEASEL ( $24.35 )
Seat 4: johnnyBuz ( $49.48 )
Seat 1: keyen54739 ( $33.15 )
johnnyBuz posts small blind [$0.10].
MadMan3535 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to johnnyBuz [ Ts Jd ]
WEENBEASEL calls [$0.25].
keyen54739 calls [$0.25].
johnnyBuz calls [$0.15].
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
MadMan3535 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 7c, 6d ]
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
johnnyBuz bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
MadMan3535 folds.
WEENBEASEL calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
keyen54739 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
johnnyBuz bets [$2.50].
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
WEENBEASEL raises [$5].
johnnyBuz calls [$2.50].
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
johnnyBuz checks.
WEENBEASEL bets [$10.70].
>You have options at Table 108153 Table!.
johnnyBuz did not respond in time.
johnnyBuz folds.
WEENBEASEL does not show cards.
WEENBEASEL wins $23.05

[bdawg56kg]

Easy call. It's 4-handed and you have top 2. Gotta pay off the straight here unless he's a nut-peddler. What was your plan when you called the turn raise? You had to know this river bet was most-likely coming. Do you have any reads or stats?

[johnnyBuz]

nope once again silly me hasn't gotten pokertracker yet. was 2-tabling and nothing really exciting was going on at this table. decent stacks but no special plays or anything. everyone limped preflop so villain could have a very wide variety of hands, maybe a set, maybe a straight.

do you think he would throw out a pot sized bet on the river with a 2pair like T7 or something? maybe i should have called this. just the way it played out i was getting a gut feeling of *STRAIGHT STRAIGHT STRAIGHT*

[bdawg56kg]

do you think he would throw out a pot sized bet on the river with a 2pair like T7 or something? maybe i should have called this. just the way it played out i was getting a gut feeling of *STRAIGHT STRAIGHT STRAIGHT*

Meh, actually yeah I read it pretty quickly. It's not such an easy call. Block bet would be appropriate here. I don't hate your fold, but I don't hate calling either.

[johnnyBuz]

what exactly is a blocking bet? anything around 1/2 the pot?

[aislephive]

I call this very easily to be honest, you might see a straight here but you will see a two pair hand here often as well.

[zaaaaaak]

I push the turn. He could be raising here with a hand like KcJc or smaller two pair.

Top two is a monster right here and I'm willing to pay off a flopped straight.

[gabe]

i like check calling because missed draws bet

[mcatdog]

Why even call the turn raise if you're going to fold the river, you realize that after making that raise on the turn he's pushing the river with any two cards right? I'd call this.

[johnnyBuz]

Why even call the turn raise if you're going to fold the river, you realize that after making that raise on the turn he's pushing the river with any two cards right? I'd call this.

i did not realize this. i wasn't convinced he had the straight, and maybe he bluffed it on the river.

should i have just bet 1/2 the pot on the river and hope for a cheap(er) showdown then?

[dsaxton]

I might try calling and betting any river. If he makes a strong raise, you should probably fold. This way you don't lose value against one pair hands that may call a bet but perhaps check behind on the river, and also prevent yourself from folding the best hand. I'm not really sure I like check-calling because you're almost committing yourself to calling whatever he decides to throw out, unless you just decide to fold based on the size of his bet. The only problem here is that you've induced a bluff with your check, and have also induced him to play certain hands that you beat a bit more strongly by showing a certain level of weakness. So it's fairly difficult to know what to do if he makes a strong river bet when you check.

Another thought is that certain cards (like a third spade) may fall on the river that might cause him to only call a bet with a set or a straight in a situation where he probably would've value bet more had you checked. You might be more inclined to bet if a card like this falls if you suspect he'll make a strong value bet with hands you can't beat if you check.

[zenbitz]

Turn min/raise just screams "good hand" to me.

I don't see a m/r semi-bluff after calling the flop with 2 clubs. J didn't complete any draws (that weren't already made)
The only question is whether "good hand" is actually better then yours... He could have something like Q9 - but again, m/r semi-bluff????

He didn't push the river either.... I think he has something better than top pair. I guess call since you beat every other 2-pair, plus metagame.

[johnnyBuz]

i like check calling because missed draws bet

do missed draws pot bet at lower limits if checked to is my question.

[johnnyBuz]

weird almost identical situation happened. the turn made me think he made his flush, and i thought my river "blocking bet" was still too weak, but the hand ended strangely.

***** Hand History for Game 4352700354 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, May 24, 20:24:28 ET 2006
Table Table 108114 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: ttomtom ( $60.66 )
Seat 5: bondgeneva07 ( $75.09 )
Seat 6: johnnyBuz ( $45.90 )
Seat 1: ALWZNCNTRL ( $25 )
Seat 3: triox ( $22.05 )
Seat 4: rbwarrior ( $24.10 )
johnnyBuz posts small blind [$0.10].
ALWZNCNTRL posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to johnnyBuz [ Js Tc ]
>You have options at Table 108132 Table!.
ttomtom folds.
triox folds.
bondgeneva07 calls [$0.25].
johnnyBuz calls [$0.15].
ALWZNCNTRL checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 5s, Jh ]
johnnyBuz bets [$1].
ALWZNCNTRL folds.
bondgeneva07 calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
johnnyBuz bets [$2.25].
bondgeneva07 raises [$5.50].
johnnyBuz calls [$3.25].
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
johnnyBuz bets [$6].
bondgeneva07 folds.
johnnyBuz does not show cards.
johnnyBuz wins $19.10