AQ and AK OOP .

[fasin8ing]

No reads. Been bossing the table around not showing down any hands recently.

***** Hand History for Game 4359089655 *****
0/0 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 24052064) - Thu May 25 17:11:28 EDT 2006
Table Speed Warrior Nation (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: estebonb (11420)
Seat 3: beeluffer1 (2260)
Seat 5: yoyo300 (2280)
Seat 7: fasin8ing1 (4040)
yoyo300 posts small blind (200)
fasin8ing1 posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Ah, Qh ]
estebonb raises (800) to 800
beeluffer1 folds.
yoyo300 folds.
fasin8ing1 raises (1350) to 1750
estebonb raises (10620) to 11420
estebonb is all-In.
fasin??????????????????????????????????????????

No reads early on.

#Game No : 4381803802
***** Hand History for Game 4381803802 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny:24181591 Level:2 Blinds(30/60) - Sunday, May 28, 10:57:41 ET 2006
Table Speed Young at Heart (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 5: sandra121 ( $2870 )
Seat 9: JankenPyon ( $1880 )
Seat 10: SecrtSqrl9 ( $2420 )
Seat 6: Lucabia ( $1940 )
Seat 3: fasin8ing1 ( $1900 )
Seat 8: thisiswork ( $1740 )
Seat 2: Fisher521 ( $3430 )
Seat 7: babyl0n ( $2020 )
Seat 1: xFARCANALx ( $1800 )
Trny:24181591 Level:2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Ah Kd ]
xFARCANALx folds.
Fisher521 folds.
fasin8ing1 raises [240]
sandra121 folds.
Lucabia folds.
babyl0n folds.
thisiswork folds.
JankenPyon raises all in[1640].
SecrtSqrl9 folds.
fasin???????????????????????????????????

[retro69]

Hand 1: Dont mess about with the raise, just push him all in, you have a great hand 4 handed expecially if hes been bullying the table with raises.

Hand 2: Id probably fold without any reads, too early to mess about with coinflips. He may have AQ/AJ but he could just as easily have AA-10's. Wait for a better opportunity, you still have plenty of chips.

[givememyleg]

Hand 1: Dont mess about with the raise, just push him all in, you have a great hand 4 handed expecially if hes been bullying the table with raises.

Villian has him covered and the 2 left are major shortstacks so this makes the hand tricky.

Problem is, you reraised half your stack.. and he pushed. If you fold here, you would be left with around 2200, and an M of ~3.5. If you call here, and double up, you would have around 8500 and an M of ~14. I don't think you can fold here. He is probably putting the pressure on you because of the mega shortstacks.

2 - Not worth my chips this early, I fold.

[retro69]

Villian has him covered and the 2 left are major shortstacks so this makes the hand tricky.

They may be short stacked but if you fold hands like AQ in this situation what hands are you going to play? alright a high pair would be nicer but id certainly take AQ against a min raising table bully. The question is are you playing to win here or playing for 3rd? If you double up here off the big stack then your right back in contention with 2 shortstacks to prety on.

Yes the big stack has you covered but its still a big dent out of his lead if he calls and loses, at worse its going to be a coinflip here id say. Personally its push all the way here for me..

[fjuanl]

1. you only have 10bb's you cant just throw in a rereraise of half your stack here. im only pushing or folding [with or without a raise in front]

2. same as the others

[givememyleg]

Villian has him covered and the 2 left are major shortstacks so this makes the hand tricky.

They may be short stacked but if you fold hands like AQ in this situation what hands are you going to play? alright a high pair would be nicer but id certainly take AQ against a min raising table bully. The question is are you playing to win here or playing for 3rd? If you double up here off the big stack then your right back in contention with 2 shortstacks to prety on.

Yes the big stack has you covered but its still a big dent out of his lead if he calls and loses, at worse its going to be a coinflip here id say. Personally its push all the way here for me..

Yes I totally agree with you here. I would have pushed after the first raise also. Just the way you worded it made it sound like hero had villian covered... I'm just nit picky with grammar I guess .

[nickthefool]

1st hand : Think. Why are you raising rather than pushing. You should know this before you make the raise.
Either:
1) You think you have a better hand and want him to come over the top with his worse hand, in which case you call.
2) You are sure he will fold worse hands than AQ to the reraise, and push over with better hands, in which case you fold.

If neither of the above apply you should be pushing or folding to his original raise imo (and most probably pushing)

2nd hand i call sometimes and fold sometimes i think, depends what mood i'm in. But i haven't played SnGs a lot recently.

[baudib]

I don't disagree with anything said here, but you know, I believe the most likely hand for villain here is AK.

[fasin8ing]

1st hand : Think. Why are you raising rather than pushing. You should know this before you make the raise.
Either:
1) You think you have a better hand and want him to come over the top with his worse hand, in which case you call.
2) You are sure he will fold worse hands than AQ to the reraise, and push over with better hands, in which case you fold.

If neither of the above apply you should be pushing or folding to his original raise imo (and most probably pushing)

2nd hand i call sometimes and fold sometimes i think, depends what mood i'm in. But i haven't played SnGs a lot recently.

I wanted him to push over or just call. If he calls... I know he is weak. If he pushes over.. I know I got him to get his chips in. If I open push and no one calls thats great too. However, if I want anyone to call .. I want big stack.

A. Its shows me what kinda cards he has been raising with.

B. Hes got me covered, its sucks if I lose, but is great because he will double me up if i win.

C. It shows what kinda hand he will push over to a reraise with. This is very good to know later in the tourny.

So yes, I want him to push over my re raise so I can call. If I open push he may fold... I didnt want that with A Q.

[fasin8ing]

1. you only have 10bb's you cant just throw in a rereraise of half your stack here. im only pushing or folding [with or without a raise in front]

I like you look at those things.. I dont mind reraising to get all the chips in against a big stack that has been bossing the table around. This plan sucks when it goes three way... However; this isnt the case... No one else wants to tango with Big stack... They fold to me. Maybe he was just bullying the table and a reraise will end it there... If not .. I invite his push and go with it.

I will ask this question:

With 10 BB's -

1. Would you rather push A Q ?

2. Would you rather take down a pot without A Q seeing five cards?

[Scuba Chuck]

You just read that "What is EV?" post. Put people on ranges, come to your own conclusions. Then, repost, and discuss if you think your ranges are accurate.

In SNGs above $10+1s, it's pretty standard to fold hand 2. In fact, I had a line once where I said that a good player could call hand 2 in a $10+1 SNG (or lower), but an even better player would fold.

[fasin8ing]

You just read that "What is EV?" post. Put people on ranges, come to your own conclusions. Then, repost, and discuss if you think your ranges are accurate.

In SNGs above $10+1s, it's pretty standard to fold hand 2. In fact, I had a line once where I said that a good player could call hand 2 in a $10+1 SNG (or lower), but an even better player would fold.

Yes I read it. I really want to give this a try .. I dont know if this A Q will be the easiest to figure out. Villain is not raising standard, he has a 3:1 chip stack plus on everyone else... He is coming out the UTG position. How could I possibly put him on anything range wise? There are certain things I understand and things I do not understand. I am afraid I need help with this. Can you put a range on someone who is playing every hand from every position? Or a maniac... Or a player that constantly goes back and forth from being loose, to tight ...??? These are my problems when I attempt to answer a hand range question.

Using a ICM calculator he is sitting on 0.39% and I am sitting on 0.25 of the prize pool. If I win I will sit at 0.34 and he will sit at 0.33 %. But I cant put villain on a range. Therefore I am thinking this play will be + EV. Am I close? Please help with hand range problems though.

[Scuba Chuck]

I hope you realize that the hand we're discussing (AQ) most likely is a fold , maybe call, preflop against most donkey bigstacks.

In terms of getting to know calling ranges, that just comes with experience. That could be costly, but most likely not too costly as you will usually have decent card equity when you play back at people. So while you may be making -EV plays while you figure this out, it's not always likely to be overly negative.

In this spot though, it's the bubble. Your decision clearly demonstrates some bubble fundamentals you are not paying attention to. There is only one hand that I am playing the way you did. Otherwise, I will usually fold, or call and see a flop based one my read of bigstack.

If you need help with hand ranges, in this spot, try putting bigstack on any two (which is * in sngpt). Then review your decision based on this information.

[fasin8ing]

I hope you realize that the hand we're discussing (AQ) most likely is a fold , maybe call, preflop against most donkey bigstacks.

Yes, I just thought since Iam learning I would decide why its a fold based on putting someone on a range and using a calculator. Ok .. so this is what I will do ... I will use the A K hand.. Makes more sense.. Let me do some research and I will reply with a more logical answer. Whether both hands are a fold or a call.. I need to think this through better .. Figure out why its a fold.. I really need to figure this out and work harder at it.

[fasin8ing]

I hope you realize that the hand we're discussing (AQ) most likely is a fold , maybe call, preflop against most donkey bigstacks.

In terms of getting to know calling ranges, that just comes with experience. That could be costly, but most likely not too costly as you will usually have decent card equity when you play back at people. So while you may be making -EV plays while you figure this out, it's not always likely to be overly negative.

In this spot though, it's the bubble. Your decision clearly demonstrates some bubble fundamentals you are not paying attention to. There is only one hand that I am playing the way you did. Otherwise, I will usually fold, or call and see a flop based one my read of bigstack.

If you need help with hand ranges, in this spot, try putting bigstack on any two (which is * in sngpt). Then review your decision based on this information.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,602,716,544 games 4.094 secs 391,479,370 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 55.9017 % 54.95% 00.95% { AKo }
Hand 2: 44.0983 % 43.15% 00.95% { QQ-66, ATs-A2s, KTs+ }

I may be being a little crazy with the all the Aces and Kings . I have 2 of them myself. Iam attempting to pair up one of those cards and even with that said - Iam still ahead if he holds an Ace or King. Any PP Iam behind here. However; I cant put him on just 2 cards if Iam trying to put him on a range of hands to see how mine compares. Ok so If I win almost 55% of the time... And my ranges are close.. This is +ev. Help if Iam wrong. Although he only has 1640 - Wouldnt this make is - EV . Iam only getting paid 1640 and I have 1900. Just because I may win the hand 55 % of the time doesnt mean its + EV right.. ? Iam confused now..

[zenbitz]

Hand 1... open pushing is better because of the times (later, assuming you win) you are bluffing. If you raise < a/i with AQ here, then you have to steal the same way ... which can be dicey. These 3 on 1 SNGs are tricky when you are not the 1. I just bubbled in one in nearly the same position as you. I had 2K, 2 guy had 1 K and bully had the rest. I played tight until, low and behold BOTH shorties doubled up! Now I'm back in the jungle with the animals... lost with A-high vs. KQ. Bottom line: You need to get the money in with AQ here, so w/p.

Hand 2... Call here is almost CERTAINLY +EV. The only way it's not is if his range is only pairs + AK. The problem is, unless he's very loose (and this is very often AT-AQ) it's only *slightly* +EV, and you risk you whole tourney on it. The reason to fold this is that it's early and there will likely be better spots to get your money in later. It's not so hard to find a coin flip. You are only getting paid 1640, but you are only betting 1640. If you lose, you still get to keep 260 (almost totally crippled, but quite out). There's already 340 in the pot, so you are betting 1300 to win 1640, any hand where you have 44% or greater to win is +EV.

[fasin8ing]

Hand 1... open pushing is better because of the times (later, assuming you win) you are bluffing. If you raise < a/i with AQ here, then you have to steal the same way ... which can be dicey. These 3 on 1 SNGs are tricky when you are not the 1. I just bubbled in one in nearly the same position as you. I had 2K, 2 guy had 1 K and bully had the rest. I played tight until, low and behold BOTH shorties doubled up! Now I'm back in the jungle with the animals... lost with A-high vs. KQ. Bottom line: You need to get the money in with AQ here, so w/p.

Hand 2... Call here is almost CERTAINLY +EV. The only way it's not is if his range is only pairs + AK. The problem is, unless he's very loose (and this is very often AT-AQ) it's only *slightly* +EV, and you risk you whole tourney on it. The reason to fold this is that it's early and there will likely be better spots to get your money in later. It's not so hard to find a coin flip. You are only getting paid 1640, but you are only betting 1640. If you lose, you still get to keep 260 (almost totally crippled, but quite out). There's already 340 in the pot, so you are betting 1300 to win 1640, any hand where you have 44% or greater to win is +EV.

Are my ranges reasonable?