Very intresting hand

[fasin8ing]

OK so .. I have to paint the picture for you all .

Early Early on .. I got notes on SONUTTY - He called a 5 X the BB raise with K 10 after he limped out of pos. Here are the few hands before the almighty one. He showed down Ace rag here/there, QQ once, and K 10 ..

#Game No : 4400281562
***** Hand History for Game 4400281562 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny:24284292 Level:4 Blinds(100/200) - Tuesday, May 30, 17:48:40 ET 2006
Table Table 95567 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: sonutty ( $3860 )
Seat 5: sukdisoutfukr ( $1815 )
Seat 3: Storm414 ( $5835 )
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 ( $4760 )
Seat 2: AJ_Moneybags ( $3730 )
Trny:24284292 Level:4
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ 8s 5c ]
AJ_Moneybags folds.
Storm414 folds.
sonutty raises [600].
sukdisoutfukr folds.
fasin8ing1 folds.
sonutty does not show cards.
sonutty wins 900 chips

Next hand.
#Game No : 4400283759
***** Hand History for Game 4400283759 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny:24284292 Level:4 Blinds(100/200) - Tuesday, May 30, 17:48:59 ET 2006
Table Table 95567 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: sonutty ( $4160 )
Seat 5: sukdisoutfukr ( $1715 )
Seat 3: Storm414 ( $5835 )
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 ( $4560 )
Seat 2: AJ_Moneybags ( $3730 )
Trny:24284292 Level:4
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ Jh 9d ]
Storm414 folds.
sonutty raises [1200].
sukdisoutfukr folds.
fasin8ing1 folds.
AJ_Moneybags is all-In [3530]
sonutty calls [2530].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 9h, 8d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]
sonutty shows [ Qc, Qd ] a flush, queen high.
AJ_Moneybags shows [ Kc, Ah ] high card ace.
sonutty wins 7560 chips from the main pot with a flush, queen high.
AJ_Moneybags finished in fifth place.

Very next hand.

#Game No : 4400294643
***** Hand History for Game 4400294643 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 Buy-in Trny:24284292 Level:5 Blinds(200/400) - Tuesday, May 30, 17:50:39 ET 2006
Table Table 95567 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: sonutty ( $8390 )
Seat 5: sukdisoutfukr ( $1315 )
Seat 3: Storm414 ( $5435 )
Seat 9: fasin8ing1 ( $4860 )
Trny:24284292 Level:5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fasin8ing1 [ 6h 2c ]
Storm414 folds.
sonutty raises [1200].
sukdisoutfukr folds.
fasin8ing1 folds.
sonutty does not show cards.
sonutty wins 1800 chips

ALMIGHTY HAND ------------------------------------------------


Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t8990
Button: t1115
Hero: t4460
BB: t5435

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with J J
UTG raises to t1200, Button folds, Hero calls t1000 (pot was t1800), BB folds.

Flop: T 8 T (t2800, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t1200, Hero calls t1200 (pot was t4000).

Turn: 9 (t5200, 2 players)
Hero ?????????????????????????????????????????????????


Results:
Final pot: t5200

[fjuanl]

hero saves himself the hassle and pushes preflop. as played, there is no way you can fold on the turn with 1/2 of your chips in this pot. but you shouldnt even have chips on the turn; i would be leading out on the flop [as played i check raise all in]

[fasin8ing]

hero saves himself the hassle and pushes preflop. as played, there is no way you can fold on the turn with 1/2 of your chips in this pot. but you shouldnt even have chips on the turn; i would be leading out on the flop [as played i check raise all in]

But FJUAN.. With him raising 1200 PF twice before and then throwing down 1200 as a c bet seem donkish? As in I should rope a dope, and push the turn ? Push PF ??????????I had 4K in chips.. With one big stack left to act... Are the blinds that important right now? The BB may have picked up on villain being stupid raising three times in a row 6 X the BB and have some hand.. Dude this hand is really complicated for me. You are speaking as if I were behind, or I didnt have a redraw to a boat, or a straight..... Why wouldnt you just call with J J and go from there?

[givememyleg]

If you take the check line on the flop you should have pushed instead of calling.

I also would have pushed preflop and been happy if: a) he folds and I win 1800 chips or b) he calls with K10 and my JJ holds up.

[fasin8ing]

You guys both swear by pushing PF with my stack size?

[Warpe]

You guys both swear by pushing PF with my stack size?

Your M is...?

[fasin8ing]

You guys both swear by pushing PF with my stack size?

Your M is...?

7.3

Does the small fry mean anything if I push and lose? Or better yet..

Villain has been playin careless. He could call with anything.. raise with anything..

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

297,940,896 games 0.640 secs 465,532,650 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 69.6127 % 69.38% 00.23% { JcJd }
Hand 2: 30.3873 % 30.15% 00.23% { ATs-A2s, K9s+, Q9s+, AJo-A2o }

Iam so fricken ahead here.. Why didnt I push . I even think my range is acceptable.

[givememyleg]

You guys both swear by pushing PF with my stack size?

Your M is...?

7.3

Does the small fry mean anything if I push and lose? Or better yet..

Villain has been playin careless. He could call with anything.. raise with anything..

Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuush!!

[midas06]

Check/raise the flop all in

[fasin8ing]

Check/raise the flop all in

Your cool with that with the 1200 donk bet?

[locks1018]

IMO, with 10's JJ's in the late stages of a SNG, they are premium hands. I would've re-raised pre-flop. If I called, pre-flop and you have a 10-high flop (even paired) I'm getting all my chips in. If he flopped trips or quads, I'm just unlucky. If he AA KK or QQ, well, I was beat in the beginning.

I think the worst play you could is call on the flop. You not only give him an opportunity to draw for basically if (he has an Ad/xd hand or a smaller pair (turn a set) or a hand like AQ who missed the flop.
By not betting the flop, you failed to find out where you were. If he has a smaller pair an Ace turns, its hard to continue to think your JJ are good if he makes another strong bet.

[fasin8ing]

IMO, with 10's JJ's in the late stages of a SNG, they are premium hands. I would've re-raised pre-flop. If I called, pre-flop and you have a 10-high flop (even paired) I'm getting all my chips in. If he flopped trips or quads, I'm just unlucky. If he AA KK or QQ, well, I was beat in the beginning.

I think the worst play you could is call on the flop. You not only give him an opportunity to draw for basically if (he has an Ad/xd hand or a smaller pair (turn a set) or a hand like AQ who missed the flop.
By not betting the flop, you failed to find out where you were. If he has a smaller pair an Ace turns, its hard to continue to think your JJ are good if he makes another strong bet.

What if he has QQ , KK , or AA ? or a smaller PP . Is it still wrong just to call ? You have to look at what he has done 3 hands in a row. I find hands when I do this to people like raise 3 times in a row.. The third one happens to be a premi.... I am still drawing with decent odds, and I could be ahead still .. Why not let him spew? But i think you are right, HU Push or reraise PF. Iam trying to examine the flop play ... More than anything.. You are correct.. I dont disagree.

[Scuba Chuck]

It's likely incorrect to shove preflop.

[fasin8ing]

It's likely incorrect to shove preflop.

I thought that untill I ran some numbers.. I think my range for villain is acceptable. But then again .. I said he could play any two .. In that case I put him on random I am way way way way ahead. Bottom line correct of not, I didnt mind seeing a flop with J J . Iam not scared to play the flop or turn. I dont think calling on the flop was wrong either. If he has a 10 I am way way way behind anyways. Iam redrawing here or really ahead if villian has a lower PP.

[fjuanl]

i dont see how you can argue that he can do this with any two cards. have you seen him raise 32, 49, etc? I've raised preflop 4-5 times in a row, except my hands were AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK. am i donkish?

you should be protecting your hand as opposed to getting tricky because a big percentage of your chips are in the pot. your hand isnt golden, you dont have top set or a flopped full house. a diamond, Q, K, and A all are cards youd rather not see. you shouldnt be letting him draw to those cards when you commit half of your stack.

i also have no idea what you are talking about when you say the "1200 donk bet"

[fasin8ing]

i dont see how you can argue that he can do this with any two cards. have you seen him raise 32, 49, etc? I've raised preflop 4-5 times in a row, except my hands were AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK. am i donkish?

you should be protecting your hand as opposed to getting tricky because a big percentage of your chips are in the pot. your hand isnt golden, you dont have top set or a flopped full house. a diamond, Q, K, and A all are cards youd rather not see. you shouldnt be letting him draw to those cards when you commit half of your stack.

i also have no idea what you are talking about when you say the "1200 donk bet"

But how am I getting tricky? Iam drawing too while i could still be ahead. How do you know he is drawing? I hate to answer a question with a question... Sorry..


He raised 1200 , c bet 1200 ... He raised 1200 the hand before. Why would you randomly bet 1200 into a 2800 pot? Kinda dumb looking you think ? He has no structure to the way he is betting. Its almost like he is thinking he called 1200 preflop , he will call 1200 post... Donkish. I dont know.. 3/4th , 1/2 pot, CR .. but 1200 is donkish to me.

[fjuanl]

its not that much smaller than 1/2 the pot. the size of his bet implies that he has some drawing hand or 2 high cards in hopes that you'll fold.[standard c-bet] either that or he has a really big hand. heres a range of hands that could bet this way [i dont know exactly how this guy played]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,455,300 games 0.938 secs 1,551,492 games/sec

Board: Tc 8d Td
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 70.5733 % 70.26% 00.31% { JJ }
Hand 2: 29.4267 % 29.12% 00.31% { JJ+, 99, 77-22, AJs+, A9s-A2s, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, AJo+, A9o-A6o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

yeah, you are pretty far ahead here. but why are you trying to let him connect with his hand? what are you going to do if you check/call, leaving you with 2100 [half of your chips] and then an ace or king hits on the turn? this is basically the same odds as if you have a pair and your opponent has a flush draw. why would you want him to draw to the flush with half of your chips in the pot?

its ok to let people draw if they hit their miracle card and your hand is still better. most likely this isnt the case in your situation [unless your positive he has 2 cards lower than a jack and will double you up if he pairs one]