Advise me on what level Iam at ???????

[fasin8ing]

Guys,
Based on my background, and please reply and share yours, Iam interested. Its a good way to get to know one another.

I dont think i play in as many tournys as others. Maybe 15-20 a week.

If Iam" just starting" ... I keep hearing this in alot of replys to my posts over and over.. What is my level of poker experience? Please do not take this as a insult, or me trying to be conceded. I want to know from members where I stand. If you are referring to if Iam just starting out with my BR, all apologies. However; I would still like to know where I stand from your perspective.

Introduced to the game @ age 16, 28 now.
Live tourny's - Wa state 3 years 3 tbl Nl Holdem tournys 25-40 buy in no rebuys, played in at least 40 tournaments.
Online play- 2 years + about 3 K spent .
Education- HOH volume 1 and 2, 3k spent at PP(training) lol, Skalansky theory of poker, FTR regular reader, read Bluff magazine monthly, Lederer's DVD, and I have read McEvoy's and Cloutier's book and Caro's books.

[thnwkd]

i would like to reply, but blasted im not 'senior'

[fasin8ing]

i would like to reply, but blasted im not 'senior'

I changed it .. Your right. Please everyone is welcome. Sincere Apologies..

[thnwkd]

Ok. let me try to tell you why everyone keeps saying you're just starting or you are a beginner.

first my history.
I've been playing poker since 2004 but have only been playing seriously(with intentions of learning and getting better as well as daily) since September of last year. From October 2005 - December 2005 I turned 300 into almost 2K.
First two weeks of '06 i turned 600.00 into 1200.00 over 120 15+1 turbos on stars. Last two weeks of jan '06 i turned 1200.00 into 550.00 playing 80 15+1 turbos @ stars.
I've read HOH1, TOP, Supersystem, and phill helmuth's book, as well as strategy guides from this site among others. I currently have HOH2, phill gordon's little green book and Kill phill in my library waiting to be completed.
I still consider myself a beginner, someone who's just starting. It doesn't matter how much books you have read or how much live experience you have, what matters is how you apply that knowledge.

now as to why everyone says you're a starter.

I believe that there are 3 elements that affect the outcome in every tournament you win; luck, your skill and the skill of your opponents. not necessarily in that order.

The skill level of the opponents at the 5s is just horrible so winning there, while it is a good indicator, is no measuring stick of your level. but since thats the level you play at, we have to assume you are as bad as the rest of players and just beginning also. this is no knock on you personally, it is just fact. and i'm not saying im better than you because like i said im just starting also. but you must recognize this.

how will you ever get better if you think you're already good? if you had the bankroll do you believe you can sit at a 55 or even a 22 right now at your current skill level and win?

All that aside the main reason i say you're starting is because of your post. you increase your roll by 80.00 over a few tournies and you're impressed and proud of yourself. this tells me that you have very little experienc and you're not used to winning.

To be considered good you have to win consistently(more than 12 tournies, try 1000 for starters) and against quality opponents ( read higher buyin here, perhaps 55s).

Don't be offended when people call you a beginner because thats what most of us here are. If you want to improve you've got to check your ego at the door.

gl.

[fasin8ing]

I respect that.... Many well rounded players bust out many times. However; like you said its at a different level. I have played some 22's.... I have won and lost. 55's a couple, for shits and giggles, no consistency there. I would like to have some if any consistency in winning. So as far as checking my ego, I really dont have one (yet). I respect your advice and will take eveything you said in consideration. I couldnt play 1000 tournys, I work for a living and poker will never consume all of my time. I just want to know, when do you know you have an A Game???? When do you know you will never bust out your BR? When do you know when your a good poker player?

[Aplomado]

Play 100 SNGs, keep track of the stats, and then we'll see. Otherwise there's no way to tell.

[thnwkd]

I respect that.... Many well rounded players bust out many times. However; like you said its at a different level. I have played some 22's.... I have won and lost. 55's a couple, for shits and giggles, no consistency there. I would like to have some if any consistency in winning. So as far as checking my ego, I really dont have one (yet). I respect your advice and will take eveything you said in consideration. I couldnt play 1000 tournys, I work for a living and poker will never consume all of my time. I just want to know, when do you know you have an A Game???? When do you know you will never bust out your BR? When do you know when your a good poker player?

I think not busting your bankroll comes down to proper bankroll management (see FAQ). As to Knowing when you have an A game. I was wondering about this the other day also, perhaps some of the senior members can speak to this question. but i think it may be relative;

Your A game at the 5s maybe a B or C game at the 11s and so on aand so forth until you reach a certain higher level after which your A game becomes your D game at the lower levels, do you follow?

As to playing 1000 tournies. You're currently playing 20 per week so it would take about a year of consistent play. however the better you become and if you're winning you may play more than 1 table at a time and also move up in buyin every 100/200 tournies. so by the time you reach your 1st 1000 tournies you will at least know that you can win consistently at a certain level.

Play 100 SNGs, keep track of the stats, and then we'll see. Otherwise there's no way to tell.

Not even 100 is enough for a definite skill level projection, I've both won and lost huge amounts in the space of 100 SnGs.

I'd say at least 750 for a decent enough projection of your profitability, if not more (1000+).

[Rockymv]

After 1k Sng's, I hit a downswing that nearly cut my ROI in half. It takes a huge sample size to know how good you actually are.

[Fnord]

Win-rate is as much about game selection as it is about player skill. The site/time/luck-of-the-draw makes comparisons between players moot.

Is getting a couple donks to your right really all that different of a form of luck than catching a couple sets that get paid?

[fasin8ing]

Is getting a couple donks to your right really all that different of a form of luck than catching a couple sets that get paid?

Yes, donks pay more. I will play 200 SNG's before I tap on this again.

[Halv]

Is getting a couple donks to your right really all that different of a form of luck than catching a couple sets that get paid?

Yes. Getting the donks on your right can be learned. Catching a set can't.

[bluey]

Is getting a couple donks to your right really all that different of a form of luck than catching a couple sets that get paid?

Yes. Getting the donks on your right can be learned. Catching a set can't.

I dont know where you are playing but at stars its random seating assignment.

[Halv]

Is getting a couple donks to your right really all that different of a form of luck than catching a couple sets that get paid?

Yes. Getting the donks on your right can be learned. Catching a set can't.

I dont know where you are playing but at stars its random seating assignment.

My bad. Thought we were in the Beginners Circle part of the forum, I was thinking of cash games. Still, if you play at a site where you can choose your seat, you can use your notes as a tool when selecting seats.

[dj newman]

Whatever makes you want to improve your game more...that is the only answer that matters.

[Scuba Chuck]

I think you are approaching a poker forum incorrectly. I have not read any of the other replies to your post, but my sense from your OP is that you're trying to say that you're seasoned, but you really don't know where you stand. I'll go out of my way to give an example. I think I understand Sit N Gos very well. In fact, I have my reservations as to the number of people who understand them better than me. But on the other hand, I think I am a nOOb when it comes to understanding poker.

Here's a great post by a guy on 2+2, where I understand what he's saying, but I do not think on that level yet. Linky

My conclusion is that you should just spend some time reading this forum. As time goes on, you will find posters that you think are at your similar level, where you can find some good lines. You'll pickout posters who are better than you, and really try and suck as much knowledge as you can from them. And then there will be the others that are virtually ones you'll ignore.

[fasin8ing]

But on the other hand, I think I am a nOOb when it comes to understanding poker.

I know you dont know me, however I do know you or at least read your blog. What I cant seem to grasp is a simple concept of understanding poker. My question to you is why would you quit your job and play something for living if you dont understand it? I will approach this differently, my question is simply asking he members of the forum how much poker they have behind their belt in comparision to me. In conclusion, precisely what you stated previously pick the people you wanna listen to for advice and pick their brains. I find it funny that instead of just saying something as simple as " I am such and such, I play this much, I have been playing this long, I have studied these books, I have played in these tournys, and I started out with this much money, and these are my goals, and this is how much I have made." Thats really what I was asking. Am I a seasoned player ? If not , why?

[Scuba Chuck]

But on the other hand, I think I am a nOOb when it comes to understanding poker.

I know you dont know me, however I do know you or at least read your blog. What I cant seem to grasp is a simple concept of understanding poker. My question to you is why would you quit your job and play something for living if you dont understand it? I will approach this differently, my question is simply asking he members of the forum how much poker they have behind their belt in comparision to me. In conclusion, precisely what you stated previously pick the people you wanna listen to for advice and pick their brains. I find it funny that instead of just saying something as simple as " I am such and such, I play this much, I have been playing this long, I have studied these books, I have played in these tournys, and I started out with this much money, and these are my goals, and this is how much I have made." Thats really what I was asking. Am I a seasoned player ? If not , why?

There are so many different ways to interpret levels of thought processes developed. For example, my guess is that the books you've read, you've tried to incorporate that thinking into your game, because that's what an expert is trying to teach. But as you begin to think on a far more advanced level of play, you are not reading this book to learn how to play, but to learn how to exploit the mass of people trying to follow that persons advice/strategy. It's a different level of approaching poker.

SNG games are really about mastering preflop poker. I think I am a near expert at preflop poker. But I have a lot to learn about playing on the other streets. I mean, have you ever read any of the high stakes NL forums before? They are just leagues ahead of my thought processes thus far.

I find myself in an interesting poker world, and the best analogy is Gulliver's travels. In most of the circles that I am in, personal, and forum-wise, I am generally perceived to be a very good poker player, and relatively and compartively speaking, I probably am. But I don't aspire to be in that position, I am continually striving to be on a level that compares with others who think of me, likely, as green (or wet behind the ears). It's all relative.

Anyway, as for me, I've played online for a little over a year now. I've played over 8,000 SNGs. Most of those sngs were the $33 and $55 buyins. I've played some higher, and some lower. The reason I never moved into higher buyins (which is changing as we speak), is because I ate my winnings. I don't think it matters what books I've read, 'cos I don't think that is an important aspect of my game level - at least as it pertains to SNGs. I made over $40k in poker last year, just from SNGs. I hope to double that (actually more) this year or more, but I plan to expand into some other forms of poker.

Does that help? But frankly, I thought you were asking me to help you figure out what level YOU are at.

[pokerroomace]

But on the other hand, I think I am a nOOb when it comes to understanding poker.

I know you dont know me, however I do know you or at least read your blog. What I cant seem to grasp is a simple concept of understanding poker. My question to you is why would you quit your job and play something for living if you dont understand it? I will approach this differently, my question is simply asking he members of the forum how much poker they have behind their belt in comparision to me. In conclusion, precisely what you stated previously pick the people you wanna listen to for advice and pick their brains. I find it funny that instead of just saying something as simple as " I am such and such, I play this much, I have been playing this long, I have studied these books, I have played in these tournys, and I started out with this much money, and these are my goals, and this is how much I have made." Thats really what I was asking. Am I a seasoned player ? If not , why?

There are so many different ways to interpret levels of thought processes developed. For example, my guess is that the books you've read, you've tried to incorporate that thinking into your game, because that's what an expert is trying to teach. But as you begin to think on a far more advanced level of play, you are not reading this book to learn how to play, but to learn how to exploit the mass of people trying to follow that persons advice/strategy. It's a different level of approaching poker.

SNG games are really about mastering preflop poker. I think I am a near expert at preflop poker. But I have a lot to learn about playing on the other streets. I mean, have you ever read any of the high stakes NL forums before? They are just leagues ahead of my thought processes thus far.

I find myself in an interesting poker world, and the best analogy is Gulliver's travels. In most of the circles that I am in, personal, and forum-wise, I am generally perceived to be a very good poker player, and relatively and compartively speaking, I probably am. But I don't aspire to be in that position, I am continually striving to be on a level that compares with others who think of me, likely, as green (or wet behind the ears). It's all relative.

Anyway, as for me, I've played online for a little over a year now. I've played over 8,000 SNGs. Most of those sngs were the $33 and $55 buyins. I've played some higher, and some lower. The reason I never moved into higher buyins (which is changing as we speak), is because I ate my winnings. I don't think it matters what books I've read, 'cos I don't think that is an important aspect of my game level - at least as it pertains to SNGs. I made over $40k in poker last year, just from SNGs. I hope to double that (actually more) this year or more, but I plan to expand into some other forms of poker.

Does that help? But frankly, I thought you were asking me to help you figure out what level YOU are at.

Nice one Scuby. So it is possible to win consistently at Poker. Hopefully, I will be that good one day (to win 40k a year). Good luck when you step up the levels.