TT Overpair vs Big Stacks

[ark4748]

I really would like to hear about how other people deal with hands like TPTK, overpair when they are not shortstacked and up against very large stacks.

I had only been at the table about 10 hands and had doubled up on BB about 5-6 hands ago, when he went AI on a 765 rainbow flop 97 against my QQ.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero (t3085)
SB (t1751)
BB (t6075)
UTG (t5000)
UTG+1 (t10110)
MP1 (t2642)
MP2 (t5105)
MP3 (t950)
CO (t2415)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t300, 4 folds, Hero calls t300, 1 fold, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t975) 7, 6, 9 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets t600, Hero raises to t1500, BB raises to t5775, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t1285 (All-In).

Turn: (t10135) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t10135) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t10135

[fjuanl]

well, if you plan to raise on the flop theres no way you can fold. you at least have 6 outs [2 tens and 4 eights] if your in bad shape. you didnt play this hand wrong whatsoever, imo its probably wrong not to go broke here, since we can assume UTG+1 could have a very wide range of raising hands [he could play 88, or A9 just like this], so your raise is smart.

dont be results oriented. your play here was fine, its just too bad the BB check/raised when you already have over 1/2 of your stack in

[pantherhound]

tough spot.

if you're going to play and call off that last 1285, you might as well push the flop.

It's a marginal situation, and you don't need to go broke in these circumstances. I can understand a push, but although it seems weak I would probably fold here, I know i'll get better chances later on. I don't think UTG+1 does this often enough with an unimproved AK-AJ, unless you have a read on him that says otherwise. He's obviously protecting his hand, or thinks he is. you have zero FE against AA or KK, and little if any against QQ or JJ given how the average tourney player love their overpairs. So the most likely scenario is that we're looking at 6 outs, or possibly less if BB woke up with a straight.

Deep stacked I raise and give it up if shown resistance.

[jackvance]

If you raise the flop, you basically agree to play for stacks. Maybe you didn't realize that when you made the play? If not, you should read up on pressure points. Now, the question is, you really want to risk your tournament on this hand? I wouldn't..

[drmcboy]

stacks are not deep.

push the flop. this is your flop.

[pantherhound]

stacks are not deep.

push the flop. this is your flop.

i know i was saying if they were deep i raise.

Why push? 6 outs is not a good situation when he likely ain't folding. we need more opinion on this hand

[chardrian]

In general, you push because you want this hand heads up not three-way.

Here - I don't think it really matters - you only have 3 players and although BB might be slowplaying, your raise will usually get him out and make the hand 2 way with the original raiser.

I think the hand was played fine. I also am assuming he lost to a set or 2 pair.

[pantherhound]

In general, you push because you want this hand heads up not three-way.

Here - I don't think it really matters - you only have 3 players and although BB might be slowplaying, your raise will usually get him out and make the hand 2 way with the original raiser.

I think the hand was played fine. I also am assuming he lost to a set or 2 pair.

yeh but the point is surely there's no FE against the original raiser as the average tourney player does not throw out a strong cbet OOP with a hand Hero beats

[ark4748]

If you raise the flop, you basically agree to play for stacks. Maybe you didn't realize that when you made the play? If not, you should read up on pressure points. Now, the question is, you really want to risk your tournament on this hand? I wouldn't..

Yes I do realize that I was playing for stacks but I wasn't sure if pushing was the proper move bc it would be a large overbet. ,I will agree that there may be better spots to risk my chips, but before I saw the check raise, I thought there was a good chance I was ahead. From what I had seen, UTG+1 min preflop raise was standard for him. I couldnt put BB on QQ+ bc I would expect a reraise. Frankly I wasn't sure what to do. I felt there were a lot of hands out there which would call that beat me, but also a lot of hands out there which I beat.

Anyways BB flipped over 97o and took me out with two pair.

[chardrian]

In general, you push because you want this hand heads up not three-way.

Here - I don't think it really matters - you only have 3 players and although BB might be slowplaying, your raise will usually get him out and make the hand 2 way with the original raiser.

I think the hand was played fine. I also am assuming he lost to a set or 2 pair.

yeh but the point is surely there's no FE against the original raiser as the average tourney player does not throw out a strong cbet OOP with a hand Hero beats

You've lost me here. An average tourney player easily fires a strong c-bet here with a hand that our hero beats. UTG+1 easily could have 8x, 9T-9A, a hand like TJ, or even hands much worse like 2 overcard or 55.

I didn't read the raise as one to drive UTG out, I read it as one to make him call and then Hero would push any turn. My thinking was that Hero wanted to play for stacks here, and I don't blame him.

[dsmrolla06]

If you raise the flop, you basically agree to play for stacks. Maybe you didn't realize that when you made the play? If not, you should read up on pressure points. Now, the question is, you really want to risk your tournament on this hand? I wouldn't..

Yes I do realize that I was playing for stacks but I wasn't sure if pushing was the proper move bc it would be a large overbet. ,I will agree that there may be better spots to risk my chips, but before I saw the check raise, I thought there was a good chance I was ahead. From what I had seen, UTG+1 min preflop raise was standard for him. I couldnt put BB on QQ+ bc I would expect a reraise. Frankly I wasn't sure what to do. I felt there were a lot of hands out there which would call that beat me, but also a lot of hands out there which I beat.

Anyways BB flipped over 97o and took me out with two pair.

If the min raise was standard for him, I think you should have reraised preflop to 800-900. That would have got the BB to fold unless he had a monster and youd have a much better idea where you stood. As for your play, i dont think there was anything wrong with it. You almost have to make the call rather than playing with only 1500 left. I can see someone with A9 or two overs making the same all-in play as he did.

[baudib]

I would push this, no question. As it turns out, you had even more outs against this two pair than against JJ+.

Reraising preflop is possibly in order if UTG minraises a lot. If you know this, BB likely knows this and is going to call with a wide range. BB has to give you credit for having a hand when you reraise an UTG raiser.

Check-raise would give me pause but he could easily have A9 or an 8 here.