DISCUSSION THREAD - Lambchop's $Mill Guar. HH

[lambchopdc]

RE: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-32844.htm

Post any questions or comments regarding the history here -

[Renton]

-----Hand 16-----
lambchopdc's M = 30.67
PokerStars Game #4499116246: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/04/02 - 17:10:19 (ET)
Table '21540953 475' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Crisper (2340 in chips)
Seat 2: lambchopdc (2300 in chips)
Seat 3: mld59 (1895 in chips)
Seat 4: __2cb__ (3060 in chips)
Seat 5: bottsky (2080 in chips)
Seat 6: zazzing (3070 in chips)
Seat 7: Q-of-Hearts7 (2305 in chips)
Seat 8: doogieass (3650 in chips)
Seat 9: NateSD222 (1830 in chips)
mld59: posts small blind 25
__2cb__: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [9c Td]
bottsky: folds
zazzing: folds
Q-of-Hearts7: raises 100 to 150
doogieass: folds
NateSD222: folds
Crisper: folds
lambchopdc: calls 150
mld59: folds
__2cb__: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Qc 3s 9d]
__2cb__: checks
Q-of-Hearts7: bets 200
lambchopdc: calls 200
__2cb__: folds
*** TURN *** [Qc 3s 9d] [3c]
Q-of-Hearts7: bets 300
lambchopdc: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [Qc 3s 9d 3c] [Ad]
Q-of-Hearts7: bets 400
lambchopdc: calls 400
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Q-of-Hearts7: shows [Kh 7h] (a pair of Threes)
lambchopdc: shows [9c Td] (two pair, Nines and Threes)
lambchopdc collected 2275 from pot


I think this was your best play in the tourney. How did you call this down? Was QofHearts full of shit?

[lambchopdc]

I think this was your best play in the tourney. How did you call this down? Was QofHearts full of shit?

I honestly don't remember the hand, but looking at the HH i can see my logic. The pot was 500 on the flop, the 200 bet seemed weak for AQ, KQ, QJ, or a pocket pair. At that point I was almost positive my 9 was good, but I wanted to see a turn. On the turn, the board pairs bottom pair, only possible hand he holds that this helps in A3. The pot on the turn is now 900, he bets 300, obv weak. I don't recall why I didn't raise here. River seems like a very likely scare card, however, he once again displays the strength of his hand with an extremely weak bet. the pot now being 1500, he bets 400, giving me slightly less than 5:1 to call. I'm pretty sure the 9 is good here way more than 25% of the time, actually i'll go out on a limb and say 50%+ of the time so the river was an easy call.

[fjuanl]

First of all, thank you lamb and Jeffrey for getting this HH up...this is really good stuff (still not even close to being done reading it)

I generally try to stay away from short/big stacks when I steal blinds (HoH2). Why did you decide to raise here instead of playing against the prefered midstack? I'm guessing you would still fold to a reraise even with the 2/1 odds?

-----Hand 50-----
lambchopdc's M = 9.38
PokerStars Game #4500681728: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2006/04/02 - 19:29:47 (ET)
Table '21540953 158' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: gilbert3040 (24949 in chips)
Seat 2: kwil20 (33840 in chips)
Seat 3: sheid (15601 in chips)
Seat 4: lerl (22892 in chips)
Seat 5: lambchopdc (12096 in chips)
Seat 6: bkslick (7960 in chips)
Seat 7: Znoopy (9230 in chips)
Seat 8: BULANU (15125 in chips)
Seat 9: worldfamous (4210 in chips)
gilbert3040: posts the ante 40
kwil20: posts the ante 40
sheid: posts the ante 40
lerl: posts the ante 40
lambchopdc: posts the ante 40
bkslick: posts the ante 40
Znoopy: posts the ante 40
BULANU: posts the ante 40
worldfamous: posts the ante 40
lambchopdc: posts small blind 400
bkslick: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [Js 9s]
Znoopy: folds
BULANU: folds
worldfamous: folds
gilbert3040: folds
kwil20: folds
sheid: folds
lerl: folds
lambchopdc: raises 1600 to 2400
bkslick: folds
lambchopdc collected 1960 from pot
lambchopdc: doesn't show hand


Why did you raise here and what would you do if anyone came over the top?

-----Hand 51-----
lambchopdc's M = 7.05
PokerStars Game #4500758508: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2006/04/02 - 19:36:25 (ET)
Table '21540953 158' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: gilbert3040 (31129 in chips)
Seat 2: kwil20 (33750 in chips)
Seat 3: sheid (15511 in chips)
Seat 4: lerl (22802 in chips)
Seat 5: lambchopdc (11216 in chips)
Seat 6: bkslick (4620 in chips)
Seat 7: Znoopy (10090 in chips)
Seat 8: BULANU (14985 in chips)
Seat 9: funngun (37510 in chips)
gilbert3040: posts the ante 50
kwil20: posts the ante 50
sheid: posts the ante 50
lerl: posts the ante 50
lambchopdc: posts the ante 50
bkslick: posts the ante 50
Znoopy: posts the ante 50
BULANU: posts the ante 50
funngun: posts the ante 50
Znoopy: posts small blind 500
BULANU: posts big blind 1000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [3s Ah]
funngun: folds
gilbert3040: folds
kwil20: folds
sheid: folds
lerl: folds
lambchopdc: raises 2000 to 3000
bkslick: folds
Znoopy: folds
BULANU: folds
lambchopdc collected 2950 from pot
lambchopdc: doesn't show hand

Edit :

some more....

[Qs Ah] UTG (M=12.82; F) Explain? I used to pay attention to M but i dont think its sound advice for online (non-deepstack) tournies

[TanO]

Hand 50 is standard. He has a better than average hand, presumably knows the guy isn't likely to defend his blind without a good hand based on previous hands and has the fold equity generated from being able to bust the guy if he does decide to go over the top

[mcatdog]

Thanks for posting this lambchop, it's a great read. Here is a hand that I'm not sure I agree with how you played it.

-----Hand 23-----
lambchopdc's M = 23.50
PokerStars Game #4499310587: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/04/02 - 17:28:07 (ET)
Table '21540953 475' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Sopris (2180 in chips)
Seat 2: lambchopdc (3525 in chips)
Seat 3: mld59 (2920 in chips)
Seat 4: __2cb__ (2870 in chips)
Seat 5: bottsky (4160 in chips)
Seat 6: zazzing (2820 in chips)
Seat 7: Q-of-Hearts7 (2236 in chips)
Seat 8: doogieass (2482 in chips)
Seat 9: NateSD222 (1367 in chips)
bottsky: posts small blind 50
zazzing: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [As Jh]
Q-of-Hearts7: folds
doogieass: calls 100
NateSD222: folds
Sopris: folds
lambchopdc: raises 200 to 300
mld59: folds
__2cb__: folds
bottsky: folds
zazzing: folds
doogieass: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [5c 3d 6s]
doogieass: bets 300
lambchopdc: raises 600 to 900
doogieass: raises 1282 to 2182 and is all-in
lambchopdc: folds
doogieass collected 2550 from pot

From reading through the hands before this one, it seems like doogieass was just terrible. I think your play is a little bit too fancy here against a player that's this bad. What did you put him on when he bet the flop? I doubt you had any chance of pushing him off an overpair here.

I've played mostly 6-max ring lately and I raise preflop a lot, so people donk bet into me very often. I'm still learning how to respond to donk bets. I do raise them quite often but IMO on this flop against this player, you should just fold.

-----Hand 27-----
lambchopdc's M = 24.15
PokerStars Game #4499508988: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/04/02 - 17:46:43 (ET)
Table '21540953 102' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: shamrock6799 (3390 in chips)
Seat 2: skugum (3305 in chips)
Seat 3: lupetto (1390 in chips)
Seat 4: CHI01 (5040 in chips)
Seat 5: lambchopdc (5434 in chips)
Seat 6: WYFish (6780 in chips)
Seat 7: jimmiex (4935 in chips)
Seat 8: dwick299 (2480 in chips)
Seat 9: BEMOL (9690 in chips)
lambchopdc: posts small blind 75
WYFish: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [7c 9s]
jimmiex: folds
dwick299: folds
BEMOL: folds
shamrock6799: folds
skugum: calls 150
lupetto: folds
CHI01: folds
lambchopdc: calls 75
WYFish: checks
*** FLOP *** [7s 2c 8h]
lambchopdc: bets 300
WYFish: calls 300
skugum: folds
*** TURN *** [7s 2c 8h] [2h]
lambchopdc: bets 750
WYFish: folds
lambchopdc collected 1050 from pot
lambchopdc: doesn't show hand

That's awesome. Did you have any reads here? I probably would have check-folded like a little bitch.

[chardrian]

I also want to thank you for posting this.

I am very impressed at how you handled yourself in the 40-50 hand range when your M was so low and most people panic.

Here are a couple of hands I would have played differently.

-----Hand 34-----
lambchopdc's M = 25.85
PokerStars Game #4499854934: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/04/02 - 18:18:38 (ET)
Table '21540953 102' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: shamrock6799 (1755 in chips)
Seat 2: skugum (3500 in chips)
Seat 3: lupetto (3090 in chips)
Seat 4: CHI01 (2880 in chips)
Seat 5: lambchopdc (10083 in chips)
Seat 7: jimmiex (6040 in chips)
Seat 8: dwick299 (4790 in chips)
Seat 9: BEMOL (13341 in chips)
shamrock6799: posts the ante 10
skugum: posts the ante 10
lupetto: posts the ante 10
CHI01: posts the ante 10
lambchopdc: posts the ante 10
jimmiex: posts the ante 10
dwick299: posts the ante 10
BEMOL: posts the ante 10
lambchopdc: posts small blind 100
jimmiex: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [Ac 7c]
downtheline is connected
dwick299: folds
BEMOL: folds
shamrock6799: calls 200
skugum: folds
lupetto: folds
CHI01: calls 200
lambchopdc: calls 100
jimmiex: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Qh Ah]
lambchopdc: checks
jimmiex: checks
shamrock6799: bets 1545 and is all-in
CHI01: folds
lambchopdc: folds
jimmiex: folds
shamrock6799 collected 880 from pot
shamrock6799: doesn't show hand

I probably would have called that, given his low chip stack.

[Qh Kc] UTG+1 (M=6.86; f+F) - right before hand 53. I push there.

[9h 9c] MP2 (M=4.73; f+p+f+F) - I call there too even with a push in front.

[Qd As] MP2 (M=10.42; f+r+f+F) - before hand 73 - looks like you were gunshy since your AQ just lost, but maybe you had a read.

[As Qh] SB (M=18.10; f+r+f+f+f+f+f+F)
[Qs Ah] UTG (M=12.82; F) - both before hand 76. Now it looks like you just really don't like AQ. I need a good read before I'm laying either of those down (maybe I overvalue AQ tho).

[elanto]

how much did you win lamb?? and congrats.

[Muxy]

lamb won close to 90k

[shysti]

lamb wins at life

[zenbitz]

Hand 34... were you worried about people left behind on the flop? stop-n-go boy probably might have air or a draw, but you can't just push over with TPNK. I guess the only guy left to act was jimmie, and you cover him, but still you are risking 6K to win 1500... and if you are behind you are crushed.

Hand 23 is brutal. That's a big raise to commit and then fold to the push, but I agree you are beat. Hard to fold to the 1/2 pot probe, but I think I give up my AJ here. AK I would raise. AQ is irrelevant since you don't play it...

[slumpy]

I'm sorry, but could you explain M to me? I know it must be important, is it the ratio of your stack to the blinds? So if my M is 100, I have 100 times the blinds?

[Renton]

I'm sorry, but could you explain M to me? I know it must be important, is it the ratio of your stack to the blinds? So if my M is 100, I have 100 times the blinds?

M is the ratio of your stack to the sum of the blind AND antes (the initial pot).

[slumpy]

initial pot - great, thanks Renton.

[supermoneyz1]

-----Hand 71-----
lambchopdc's M = 9.21
PokerStars Game #4502569265: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (5000/10000) - 2006/04/02 - 22:06:53 (ET)
Table '21540953 248' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: RodgerRitter (86972 in chips)
Seat 2: a_rasti (78389 in chips)
Seat 3: kissmyaxe (305358 in chips)
Seat 4: anakinso (113383 in chips)
Seat 5: DLizzle (310886 in chips)
Seat 6: Ian J (55803 in chips)
Seat 7: domnick (123186 in chips)
Seat 8: lambchopdc (139004 in chips)
Seat 9: soupie (96852 in chips)
RodgerRitter: posts the ante 500
a_rasti: posts the ante 500
kissmyaxe: posts the ante 500
anakinso: posts the ante 500
DLizzle: posts the ante 500
Ian J: posts the ante 500
domnick: posts the ante 500
lambchopdc: posts the ante 500
soupie: posts the ante 500
domnick: posts small blind 5000
lambchopdc: posts big blind 10000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [Ac As]
soupie: folds
RodgerRitter: folds
a_rasti: folds
kissmyaxe: folds
anakinso: folds
DLizzle: raises 20000 to 30000
Ian J: folds
domnick: folds
lambchopdc: calls 20000
*** FLOP *** [Jc 4h Kh]
lambchopdc: checks
DLizzle: checks
*** TURN *** [Jc 4h Kh] [8s]
lambchopdc: bets 40000
DLizzle: calls 40000
*** RIVER *** [Jc 4h Kh 8s] [3s]
lambchopdc: bets 68504 and is all-in
DLizzle: folds
lambchopdc collected 149500 from pot
lambchopdc: doesn't show hand

[Ks 4d] SB (M=14.45; f+f+r+f+f+f+f+F)
[3h Ac] BU (M=14.08; f+f+f+r+f+f+F)

Any regrets on this one? Not being results oriented, but I dis like this push.


Also, I am to lazy to find hh, first hand of FT you get dealt AJ and are one off cut and fold, was really tight?
nice job and congrats though

[JeffreyGB]

-----Hand 71----- ...

Any regrets on this one? Not being results oriented, but I dis like this push.

I'm curious what play you like better...I think the push is getting called about as often as a 30k bet. It is, after all, just over 1/2 the pot. I think his stack his stack makes a push more +EV than any other play, long term (you're getting called way more than 1/2 as often as a smaller bet).

[supermoneyz1]

eww. wrong hand. ONe of the hands lamb had a deep stack and pushed aces into a inital raise and a call with a very deep stack. I dont have the time or energy to search through and find it.

[supermoneyz1]

-----Hand 107-----
lambchopdc's M = 23.09
PokerStars Game #4504432361: Tournament #21540953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXX (40000/80000) - 2006/04/03 - 00:33:31 (ET)
Table '21540953 106' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mrrain (2507365 in chips)
Seat 3: Jinx17 (340656 in chips)
Seat 4: Payperwiew (2274976 in chips)
Seat 5: LagunaSlick (1406650 in chips)
Seat 6: SGTMAC1995 (588980 in chips)
Seat 7: Eagleper (1397826 in chips)
Seat 8: lambchopdc (2773344 in chips)
Seat 9: mikello (1817703 in chips)
mrrain: posts the ante 4000
Jinx17: posts the ante 4000
Payperwiew: posts the ante 4000
LagunaSlick: posts the ante 4000
SGTMAC1995: posts the ante 4000
Eagleper: posts the ante 4000
lambchopdc: posts the ante 4000
mikello: posts the ante 4000
Jinx17: posts small blind 40000
Payperwiew: posts big blind 80000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lambchopdc [Ac Ad]
LagunaSlick: raises 160000 to 240000
SGTMAC1995: calls 240000
Eagleper: folds
lambchopdc: raises 2529344 to 2769344 and is all-in
mikello: folds
mrrain: folds
Jinx17: folds
Payperwiew: folds
LagunaSlick: folds
SGTMAC1995: folds
lambchopdc collected 872000 from pot
lambchopdc: doesn't show hand

[JeffreyGB]

I don't hate the play there either, though image is a bit of a consideration...Here's my thinking:
- Between an UTG raise and an UTG+1 call, I figure that one of them has a hand, so I wouldn't be surprised to get a call a decent amount of the time
- I'd rather the pot be heads-up than three way, so requiring more chips for playing it lends itself nicely to this
- A 3x the current bet raise here looks like AA/KK from a mile away. A push actually creates some deception, so I think their calling range may be wider against a push than against a 'normal' reraise.

[lambchopdc]

Hey guys sorry I haven't responded to this thread that much yet. Been ultra busy between playing, getting my new apartment, and getting ready to the Bahamas for the Paradise Conquest. I'll respond to some of the old posts when I have a chance but I'll address the last AA post first.

I was expected some questions on this hand. If any of you watched the replay, UTG folded AQ. I still can't believe that. Here was the thought:

A. UTG and UTG+1 are putting a huge % of their stacks in the middle, they are committed against almost any hand except AA or KK.
B. I don't have any information on either of them so I have to give them credit as being somewhat competent (whenever u make a final table i recommend having this as your default read until they tell u otherwise).
C. The goal here is to get all their chips in without sending the message that I have AA.
D. Here are my options:

Cold Call - Without UTG+1's call I probably do this with UTG's stack. Its a risky play but he's so short and I want his chips in so if he hits, he hits, I can take that risk. UTG+1's call makes this impossible because it would give HUGE implied odds to the other players behind me.

Raise - Well, lets think about this, if you see an UTG raise, a call, and a small re-raise....what range do you put raiser on?? Obv. AA-KK. This is the exact message that I did not want to put across.

Push - I went with this option for the main reason of noone expects me to do this with Aces. My range widens here to include lower pairs, AK-AQ. Also, any raise commits both players anyhow, if they fold to the push, they would have folded to the raise anyway. Overall I think considering the stack sizes and positions, this play was the most +EV.... I still can't believe he folded AQ....lol.

[chardrian]

UTG had enough chips left to fold AQ there. He has to put you on a very good hand. AK; AA-the lowest he could go is probably JJ. His hand absolutely sucks against that range.

It was UTG+1's fold that was most surprising to me. It's 340k more to him to win over 800k. I think he needs to call there with any two - but then again he also was far and away the biggest puss at the table.

I don't dislike your play there at all. But I also like a reraise to about 750k which would put UTG+1 all-in and create a side pot with UTG if he calls, and then pushing any flop.

[andvanwyk]

Hi.
I was wondering if there is anyway that one can import this hand history into poker tracker and then replay it visually. I find it difficult to read so much text and still keep perspective. If one can't do this with poker tracker are there any other tools one can use?
Thanks
Andreas

[IowaSkinsFan]

Lamb, I'm not a regualr MTTer so my question is this. I looked at the HH which I really thought you played great, however you are on the brink of losing this tournament 5 or 6 all ins (being dominated), do you have to get this lucky to win a tourney? Or did it just so happen you got a little lucky in this one.

[lambchopdc]

Lamb, I'm not a regualr MTTer so my question is this. I looked at the HH which I really thought you played great, however you are on the brink of losing this tournament 5 or 6 all ins (being dominated), do you have to get this lucky to win a tourney? Or did it just so happen you got a little lucky in this one.

Actually, u usually need to win more than 5 or 6 allins. Im confused about the (being dominated) part cuz other than the final table where I put the shortstack allin with A2 and sucked out against AT, i don't recall ever being allin while dominated, in fact I think i was allin for my tourney life twice with the worst hand (82s and 73o) which were both 40/60s. To answer your question tho, to win a 5000+ entrant tourney, yes you have to get very lucky, but not as lucky as an unskilled donkey.