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Staying alive in a tourney (smallish stack, last 25%)

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  1. #1

    Default Staying alive in a tourney (smallish stack, last 25%)

    Hi, I am pretty new to MTT tourneys and have some questions regarding my strategy. Most of the time I manage to advance to the last 25% of the field in a tourney. I play tight and aggressive, but here's my problem: Wheras in the beginning I have usually little problem to double or triple up (lots of fishy players) I exprience a slow suckout at later stages that forces me into coinflip situations (pushing AKoff all in, getting called by JJ etc.). How can I avoid this?

    I raise preflop only hands that are 99+ or AJ+, even when in position. Is that a leak?

    I rarely take a hit at a flop that I don't hit ( I don't play very many though), should I?

    I play aggressively after the flop when I hit, getting a lot of folds after the flop (I don't want to give out free cards). I wonder if at a tourney you would play "riskier" and slowplay sets for example to suck your opponent in?

    Often I find myself in the middle stages of a tourney with something like 15BB left. After two orbits and a cold run of cards the blinds go up and I I am down to 8BB without even playing a hand. The best hands I am holding are someting like A5off, K7off, 10Joff and the like and I can't see myself raising out of position for a blind steal just to see a small stack move allin after me with AJoff or something.

    To summarize: How do I play in a tourney with a middle/smallish stack when a cold run of cards hits,it seems to happen to me too often... Finally I would get middle pair/ AQ/ AK/AJ/ and move all in and survive maybe once or twice with the blinds up before my 99 gets called by QQ or my AK gets crushed with JJ. I would love to not having to move all in and build a stack earlier in a tournament that would survive a coinflip but a rarely manage...

    Any tips appreciated...
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  2. #2
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    What level are you playing at? I play at some low buy-in MTTs and play is atrocious. To get a decent stack in early or middle stage you need good cards, and a flop that cooperates. After that you can abuse the people around you.

    You do need luck in MTTs.

    {EDIT: You need SOME luck}
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Staying alive in a tourney (smallish stack, last 25%)

    Quote Originally Posted by knoedel
    Hi, I am pretty new to MTT tourneys and have some questions regarding my strategy. Most of the time I manage to advance to the last 25% of the field in a tourney. I play tight and aggressive, but here's my problem: Wheras in the beginning I have usually little problem to double or triple up (lots of fishy players) I exprience a slow suckout at later stages that forces me into coinflip situations (pushing AKoff all in, getting called by JJ etc.). How can I avoid this?

    I raise preflop only hands that are 99+ or AJ+, even when in position. Is that a leak?

    Probably. You shouldnt remain this tight in all situations..early position this line is fine, but mid and especially late position in unraised pots, you can loosen your raising standards. Also, your stack size is very relevant to this question. With a short stack, you must loosen your standards further even more , and raise unraised pots with a pretty wide range of hands- and , most importantly , you must not be afraid of busting out.

    I rarely take a hit at a flop that I don't hit ( I don't play very many though), should I?

    yes! C bets are a very important weapon that you have at your disposal. Even taking a "second shot", firing a second c bet out on an uncoordinated board is often sucessful, though this one is more tricky, and should be used with more caution. Now you have to be careful of the board with this tactic, a straight draw or flush draw on board that you dont have , is not usually a good idea, nor is C betting into more than 2 opponents..but heads up, if you raised pf with AQ, get 1 caller, and the flop comes 3 8 J rainbow, and are the 1st to act, bet it! not only do you have a great chance to take it down, you also have outs even if called!


    I play aggressively after the flop when I hit, getting a lot of folds after the flop (I don't want to give out free cards). I wonder if at a tourney you would play "riskier" and slowplay sets for example to suck your opponent in?

    If the board for the set you have hit is pretty uncoordinated, I think its OK to slow play, especially against an aggressive opponent- like check raising or even check/calling. you want to extract as many chips as you can with your huge hands. Its also fine to simply bet it out, especially if , for instance the flop has an A that think has likely hit your opponent


    Often I find myself in the middle stages of a tourney with something like 15BB left. After two orbits and a cold run of cards the blinds go up and I I am down to 8BB without even playing a hand. The best hands I am holding are someting like A5off, K7off, 10Joff and the like and I can't see myself raising out of position for a blind steal just to see a small stack move allin after me with AJoff or something.

    15xBB you can fold those hands, but on the CO or button, or SB, even then you can make a 3xBB raise and get away from it if you have to with chips left. 8BB, now you probably have to raise these if no one has entered the pot, and you are in late position, and when I say raise, I mean push all in. But not that often, and not against monster stacks or shorties.

    To summarize: How do I play in a tourney with a middle/smallish stack when a cold run of cards hits,it seems to happen to me too often... Finally I would get middle pair/ AQ/ AK/AJ/ and move all in and survive maybe once or twice with the blinds up before my 99 gets called by QQ or my AK gets crushed with JJ. I would love to not having to move all in and build a stack earlier in a tournament that would survive a coinflip but a rarely manage...

    again read HOH2 for a great strategy regarding that situation. he will explain how to play when in the "red and orange zones" ( short stacked)
    In general, you must be aggressive when short stacked, and take advantage of situations that warrant a push or raise, so that you dont get so far behind the blinds, that you dont have a chance.



    Any tips appreciated...




  4. #4
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Staying alive in a tourney (smallish stack, last 25%)

    Sorry, I didn't really read the post and think about it the first time.
    Quote Originally Posted by knoedel
    I rarely take a hit at a flop that I don't hit ( I don't play very many though), should I?

    I play aggressively after the flop when I hit, getting a lot of folds after the flop (I don't want to give out free cards). I wonder if at a tourney you would play "riskier" and slowplay sets for example to suck your opponent in?
    These two go hand-in-hand. Are you betting the size of the pot after re-raising pre-flop? That's too aggressive. When you raise pre-flop, then hit your hand, you are not necessarily trying to take down the pot (what I used to think). You are value betting, making a bet that someone will be making a mistake to call. This is the reason for the 1/2-3/4 bet (depending on the flop).

    Read HOH I (I saw jdubs recommended the 2nd one). Then you won't be afraid to play post-flop.

    Don't slowplay sets, your hand is very well hidden (maybe if it's top set, because you may have crippled the deck. Depends on texture). If you have an agressive read, then you could slowplay because they will start the betting for you.

    Post hands!!!
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  5. #5

    Default Example Hand

    This is actually from an sit&go, but same situation: Did I bet out to much (didn't want to give odds to draw, figured hero might possibly be holding an Ace). The preflop raise I did because this post confirmed me that I was to tight in my pre flop raising range. He was one of those guys who would checkraise nearly all hands that he would hit.

    ***** Hand History for Game 4640400003 *****
    0/0 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 25496526) - Sun Jul 02 18:00:43 EDT 2006
    Table Sunday Million Satellite 1254345 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
    Total number of players : 8
    Seat 1: knoedel (1840)
    Seat 2: crow1961 (4480)
    Seat 3: Rayamy (2780)
    Seat 4: Curvetheory (2140)
    Seat 5: trobro20001 (1940)
    Seat 6: Smart_Marty (3260)
    Seat 9: venom111111 (1700)
    Seat 10: foldem247 (1860)
    Curvetheory posts small blind (30)
    trobro20001 posts big blind (60)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to knoedel [ 7c, 7h ]
    Smart_Marty calls (60)
    venom111111 folds.
    foldem247 calls (60)
    knoedel raises (200) to 200
    crow1961 folds.
    Rayamy folds.
    Curvetheory folds.
    trobro20001 folds.
    Smart_Marty calls (140)
    foldem247 folds.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ad, 5h, 7d ]
    Smart_Marty checks.
    knoedel bets (500)
    Smart_Marty folds.
    ** Summary **
    Main Pot: 1050
    Board: [ Ad 5h 7d ]

    By the way: I ended up winning and got an entry for the Partypoker Million next sunday with an overall investment of seven Dollars (buy in: 215$). It was my first try to qualify to a major tournament. Hope I can get ITM.
    In order to live you have to be ready to die!
  6. #6
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    Raising 77 isn't a good idea. You have to play it for set value so you don't mind a multi-way pot.

    Your flop bet is too big. You have a good hand, good enough that you don't want to chase him away. The pot is 500, a bet of 300 leaves him room to check-raise you (and protects against the flush draw). For him to check-raise 500 he'd have to go all-in. The being said, I don't think he had an A so you probably weren't getting much from him anyway.

    It is good you bet, especailly if you have a read saying he's c/r crazy.
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  7. #7
    These Mid tourney "coinflips" ie. Ak Vs. JJ....are you getting decent odds to call? if you are getting 2:1 on AK vs. JJ you have to call those. a slump in these confrontations is painful, but wait until you hit two or three in a row and all of the sudden your the chip leader...it will be well worth it.
  8. #8
    @gus27: I am talking about going all-in preflop with AK as a small stack, hoping to get the blinds and, if called, have a good chance to survive. You're right though: As a shortstack I would definetely consider calling an all-in by another shortstack since my hand is only dominated by two hands: KK and AA. Even against QQ you have pretty good odds I believe. The downside: You are up for a coinflip with any pp, even 22. I am sure though you guys have the pot odds thing all figured out...

    Eventually someone will have a better or equally good hand and call me resulting in a coinflip: double up or out. You might survive that once or twice, but I just don't want to have to rely on coinflips to get ITM. (ie. if I was a bigstack holding 10 10 and a small stack in front of me goes all-in I would call, assuming I was either clearly ahead (smaller pp) or more or less coinflip (JQ+) and very rarely behind (JJ+). Busting the small stack brings me one closer to the money, even if once in a while you will double someone up. Of course this is only if you can afford the possible loss.
    In order to live you have to be ready to die!
  9. #9
    I haven't had to rely on coinflips to get ITM, however to get deep ITM I have had to be willing to risk a coinflip...to risk many coin flips...it's not the coinflips that get me deep ITM but rather the folding equity. Last night I played a $22 180 and I showed down some pathetic hands, either because I was getting tremendous odds, or because so many people would fold preflop once the bubble approached and even after we got ITM. I thought for sure that this would kill my fold equity...just the opposite happened...people realized I was willing to take just about any hand pretty far, also a flop like 6d 5h 9c became pretty scary...this put me in a great spot...ended up calling an open-all in from the big stack (his 5th open - all in in 15 hands) with AKo he shows A2o and flops a set of 2's, my point here is my aggression and willingness to used the coinflip possibility to my advantage put me Deep Deep ITM so much so that I would have had a mega stack with 6 people left, when I have finished in the top 3 this is what I usually need to get me there, especially when the cards aren't coming.
    I would say that about 90% of people in the late stages would rather make the money or advance ITM than increase their stack, you have to exploit this in tournament play

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