This is fairly easy laydown right?

[THaC]

PokerStars Game #5453190133: Tournament #27537611, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/07/04 - 15:20:42 (ET)
Table '27537611 15' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: giblets13 (6827 in chips)
Seat 2: b969t2 (2880 in chips)
Seat 3: GPD1739 (4014 in chips)
Seat 4: Matoose (915 in chips)
Seat 5: herradura (1320 in chips)
Seat 6: TbHackworth (3149 in chips)
Seat 7: calendar888 (7340 in chips)
Seat 8: madm8771 (3115 in chips)
Seat 9: Lethargy. (1905 in chips)
madm8771: posts small blind 75
Lethargy.: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TbHackworth [Jc Jd]
giblets13: raises 150 to 300
b969t2: folds
GPD1739: folds
Matoose: folds
herradura: folds
TbHackworth: calls 300
calendar888: folds
madm8771: folds
Lethargy.: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [4h Tc 6c]
Lethargy.: bets 1605 and is all-in
giblets13: calls 1605
TbHackworth: folds


No real reads on Lethargy, giblets limps a lot and I haven't seen a whole lot of his postflop play.

[Anaemik]

Impossible to say, given that you didn't define your hand with a raise PF. He could have a number of hands here. AK-AT, KQ, 99, all of which you are beating. AA,KK,QQ,TT, all of which you are losing to. His UTG raise was a minraise. At higher stakes, I'd be more than a little cautious of this, but you see so many weak raises coming from low buyin tourny players, so it's impossible to put him on any ind of hand here. I would've pumped it up to about 900 PF and see how action developed from there.

Lethargy might have hit top pair with a hand like JT-KT, or he may have hit his set of 4's or 6's. He's calling one extra bet into a pot that's offering him over 5-1, so he could be much weaker than that. He seems to be one of the smaller stacks so might just be looking for chips. A $1650 bet into a $975 pot screams "go away" to me. If it was just him, I'd call it in a flash. But Giblet's call has to worry you.

Still, because you didn't define your hand and allow the opps to define theirs, you now have no idea what either are holding.

Your only option: fold.

[THaC]

Oh, yeah, I was meaning to start conversations about my pre-flop play as well.

I think by not defining my hand that, instead of going broke reraising vs AA/KK, which I see getting minraised UTG all the time ("this'll trick those fuckers" etc), I call, and then if a J comes, my hand is disguised.

I have been trying this line a lot recently and it's keeping me out of trouble for the most part. I'll just check the flop and either float it or check-raise if I have a timing read on the player.

Thoughts?

[Anaemik]

Not raising out of fear of being trapped is a big -EV move, IMO

[baudib]

I think you folded the hand that was ahead on the flop 60 percent of the time here.

[drmcboy]

it's easy if you're playing no set no bet. My rules is I never play JJ to set if the pot is worth winning pre flop. this one is.

as played, you're ahead here often but you can't be a big favorite if it's a T and a FD. It sucks if they both have the FD or < a T, but I think that's cancelled out by the times you're drawing to a J.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

8,127 games 0.015 secs 541,800 games/sec

Board: 4h Tc 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 42.7587 % 42.76% 00.00% { JcJd }
Hand 2: 13.6090 % 13.61% 00.00% { QTs, QTo }
Hand 3: 43.6323 % 43.63% 00.00% { AcQc }

[zenbitz]

Lethargy has a huge draw, 35/57/78/89/AXc
He might have a set... but I think he would c/r all in here. He could have outright air or a weak T on a stop-n-go, but I bet he has outs.

Giblets is tricky. You have no info on whether he m/r UTG with KQo or AA. BUT you do seem him calling the push. So, I have to believe he has at least a pair, possibly gambling with a big draw. Also... he did NOT push to get you out of the pot. That means he either has a nut draw or set or overpair.

I think if this was just for 1600... you could call and be crippled but not out if you lose. Since Giblets will probably put you in on the turn no matter what....

I think this is a fold.

Reraising pre-flop is probably OK, but ONLY ONLY ONLY if you fold to a push. So you need a read and have to keep your r/r small.

Wow, it sucks to see a cheap flop with JJ 3-way and lay it down on such a good flop.

[drmcboy]

yeah, this is a tough hand, because AK problaby pushes too and then the fold is brutal pre flop, but I would agree it's correct since his range is AK, JJ+