$4.40 180 Stars

[Sprayed]

Not sure if I donked these. I want to get an idea of how eveyone would play these.

PokerStars Game #5528297492: Tournament #27942268, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/07/11 - 19:44:42 (ET)
Table '27942268 14' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: rizzo888 (10665 in chips)
Seat 2: Royal One (4100 in chips)
Seat 4: sdsrfnut (8870 in chips)
Seat 5: pico123 (10329 in chips)
Seat 6: SPHARRIS1 (1555 in chips)
Seat 7: Bigrack1 (3410 in chips)
Seat 8: allen450 (8420 in chips)
Seat 9: Sprayed (1930 in chips)
sdsrfnut: posts small blind 50
pico123: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sprayed [Ah Th]
SPHARRIS1: calls 100
Bigrack1: folds
allen450: calls 100
Sprayed: calls 100
rizzo888: folds
Royal One: calls 100
sdsrfnut: folds
pico123: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d Kh 3h]
pico123: checks
SPHARRIS1: checks
allen450: checks
Sprayed: bets 300
Royal One: raises 300 to 600
pico123: folds
SPHARRIS1: folds
allen450: folds
Sprayed: ?

PokerStars Game #5528003658: Tournament #27942268, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/07/11 - 19:17:55 (ET)
Table '27942268 3' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Sprayed (3135 in chips)
Seat 2: blaqdog (2005 in chips)
Seat 3: Phatbat007 (3835 in chips)
Seat 4: KorvasC (2565 in chips)
Seat 5: rizzo888 (1430 in chips)
Seat 6: SilkysNuts (960 in chips)
Seat 7: widude (1745 in chips)
Seat 8: tsherma (3365 in chips)
Seat 9: papa1929 (1945 in chips)
KorvasC: posts small blind 15
rizzo888: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sprayed [Ks Ah]
SilkysNuts: folds
widude: folds
tsherma: folds
papa1929: calls 30
Sprayed: raises 90 to 120
blaqdog: folds
Phatbat007: folds
KorvasC: folds
rizzo888: calls 90
papa1929: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [Ac 8d 2d]
rizzo888: bets 120
papa1929: folds
Sprayed: raises 330 to 450
rizzo888: raises 330 to 780
Sprayed: ?

PokerStars Game #5527483694: Tournament #27939509, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/07/11 - 18:29:49 (ET)
Table '27939509 6' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Sprayed (2425 in chips)
Seat 2: Ggrruubb (1195 in chips)
Seat 3: rumpel4skin (4350 in chips)
Seat 4: Monkeyboy235 (2115 in chips)
Seat 5: MAGON (1285 in chips)
Seat 6: _Stinky Esq (2110 in chips)
Seat 7: Dragon2 (715 in chips)
Seat 8: jimran (665 in chips)
Monkeyboy235: posts small blind 15
MAGON: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sprayed [Td Kd]
_Stinky Esq: folds
Dragon2: raises 90 to 120
jimran: folds
Sprayed: calls 120
Ggrruubb: folds
rumpel4skin: calls 120
Monkeyboy235: folds
MAGON: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [5s Qd Jd]
MAGON: checks
Dragon2: bets 240
Sprayed: ?

[drmcboy]

1) I would call and push any turn
2) With no read, I would set him in.
3) Make it 875 to go. Don't fold.

[zenbitz]

1) fold ... ooo nfd.... I can't fathom that you have FE vs. big stack who m/r flop

Do you have odds to chase 1 card? 300:1300... close. I call here with the draw to the nuts, overcard, and b'way redraw. Might fold turn if I miss.

2) I think fold TPTK to the re-raise.

3) villain only has 360 behind, and you arent folding. I guess push on the off chance that he folds if you call and a diamond turns.

[chardrian]

Hand 1 - call or push flop.

Hand 2 - push

Hand 3 - call, you don't wanna push anyone out there since your hand is not made and u are playing just to hit - you want as many people in the pot as possible.

[heat680]

1. Call, re-evaluate on the turn

2. I don't like the re-raise here. I probably fold.

3. Call

[swiggidy]

Hand 1 - You have to call, a push wouldn't accomplish much. If you want to race for a double up push (you will get called)

Hand 2 - Call and push a non-diamond turn. Not sure what I do if a comes

Hand 3 - I think it's a c-bet. Call and re-evaluate on turn. If he checks bet.
{EDIT: I did not notice his stack size. Raise to just enough to put him all-in}

[Sprayed]

With so many outs in hand 1 and 3 I figured that I had to go the distance. However, by playing this way I tend to bust out early a lot in these low buy-ins. I figure the reason why is that the competition won't fold to big raises even with middle pair. In the $20's I was able to push the table around and get away with betting my draws.

I had to take out my br when I took my new job and now I am starting over and can only play the $4.40's. I would love to go back to the $20's. Both are very soft but I think that there are few more thinking players in the $20’s. If I hit once with these hands I am goot. For what it's worth I didn't hit either one of these hands and hand 2, he called with A5d and had top pair with a draw, so goot him but bad call pre-flop which is what I want.

I think that I tend to go for the home run too much early on in tourneys. Trying to get the huge stack. The consensus here is that I needed to get my chips in except for zenbitz. After watching Rizen play and reading his blog, small ball is what he protests and he doesn't get his chips in unless he has a sure thing. What are your comments to this style of play?

[swiggidy]

I think that I tend to go for the home run too much early on in tourneys. Trying to get the huge stack. The consensus here is that I needed to get my chips in except for zenbitz. After watching Rizen play and reading his blog, small ball is what he protests and he doesn't get his chips in unless he has a sure thing. What are your comments to this style of play?

Rizen is not playing the $4.40s. I agree small ball can be very effective, but you just don't get the opportunities here (it requires thinking opponents). If you probably have the best hand and can get all the chips in the middle, do so because people will call.

These hands are a little scarier because the opponent is actually betting. In a position like hand 2 you'll often get called down (sometimes with their whole stack) with AT, 99, etc.

People call 3/4 bets on the turn with a flush draw.

ABC poker (and a couple good hands) is enough for me to get to the bubble.

[chardrian]

With so many outs in hand 1 and 3 I figured that I had to go the distance. However, by playing this way I tend to bust out early a lot in these low buy-ins... The consensus here is that I needed to get my chips in except for zenbitz. After watching Rizen play and reading his blog, small ball is what he protests and he doesn't get his chips in unless he has a sure thing. What are your comments to this style of play?

The consensus might be that you should get your chips in, but that doesn't mean you played your hands correctly.

Hand 1 - yes you have the nut flush draw giving you at least 9 outs (you also have have two backdoor str8 draws and your A might be an out as well), but there are 4 other opps so it is doeubtful that your hand is good right now. I don't mind your play and I also used to bet my nut draws aggressively, but lately I have realized that there is no real goot reason to build pots on the flop for your goot draws early in tourneys because most of your opps are going to pay you off whether the pot has been built or not. I'd rather just see you check that flop and go for the free card. If Royal bets big then you can decide whether you want to gamble or not (I'd almost always gamble there).

Hand 2 you played fine.

Hand 3 - there is a good argument to fold preflop, but let's forget about that for now. Post flop is where the differences are showing. It looks to me like the thought process of most is "well I have at least 15 outs meaning I am better than 50% to win this hand so I should just get all my chips in on this flop." Again, this used to be my thought process as well - but I now think it is wrong. There is no question that you need to take this hand to the river - but I still say the best approach to get there is by calling that flop. You are a favorite to win the hand right now, but you still need to draw out to get there, so you don't want to knock others out of this hand by pushing and making it heads up (as you would if you had a hand like Q5 here). Instead, you want to keep as many in the pot as possible so that if you do draw out, you will be paid off. I call that flop.

[Sprayed]

With so many outs in hand 1 and 3 I figured that I had to go the distance. However, by playing this way I tend to bust out early a lot in these low buy-ins... The consensus here is that I needed to get my chips in except for zenbitz. After watching Rizen play and reading his blog, small ball is what he protests and he doesn't get his chips in unless he has a sure thing. What are your comments to this style of play?

The consensus might be that you should get your chips in, but that doesn't mean you played your hands correctly.

Hand 1 - yes you have the nut flush draw giving you at least 9 outs (you also have have two backdoor str8 draws and your A might be an out as well), but there are 4 other opps so it is doeubtful that your hand is good right now. I don't mind your play and I also used to bet my nut draws aggressively, but lately I have realized that there is no real goot reason to build pots on the flop for your goot draws early in tourneys because most of your opps are going to pay you off whether the pot has been built or not. I'd rather just see you check that flop and go for the free card. If Royal bets big then you can decide whether you want to gamble or not (I'd almost always gamble there).

Hand 2 you played fine.

Hand 3 - there is a good argument to fold preflop, but let's forget about that for now. Post flop is where the differences are showing. It looks to me like the thought process of most is "well I have at least 15 outs meaning I am better than 50% to win this hand so I should just get all my chips in on this flop." Again, this used to be my thought process as well - but I now think it is wrong. There is no question that you need to take this hand to the river - but I still say the best approach to get there is by calling that flop. You are a favorite to win the hand right now, but you still need to draw out to get there, so you don't want to knock others out of this hand by pushing and making it heads up (as you would if you had a hand like Q5 here). Instead, you want to keep as many in the pot as possible so that if you do draw out, you will be paid off. I call that flop.

So, what I am understanding is that I need to be less aggressive early.

[swiggidy]

So, what I am understanding is that I need to be less aggressive early without a made hand.

FYP

[chardrian]

In a tourney like this one, I would be very aggressive with hands like TT+, AK preflop, and would be willing to play lots of marginal/good hands for cheap preflop and then play anything 2 pair or better (and oftentimes TPTK or better) on the flop very aggressively as well.

Your hands # 1 and 3 here are drawing hands though. So, yeah, postflop with drawing hands against guys who can't lay down their hands anyways, I don't see the point in pushing on flops and hoping your cointoss hits when you can often see the following streets for cheap and then get away if you don't hit and get paid off if you do.