Bad Play

[LeFou]

Okay I start with a badbeatish story but I lead to actual questions forthwith.

Okay, you're in a 3-table $10 SNG, blinds 15/30. You catch ATo in MP . Folded to you, you minraise (to 60). LeFou reraises you from LP to 150. You call. HU on flop:

Ace-rag-rag, uncoordinated. You check, LeFou bets 150. You call
Turn is nothing. You check, LeFou bets 450. You call.
River is a T. You checkraise LeFou and he shows AKs, which (I have to assume) is exactly what you thought he had the whole time.

Question #1: Will you please #$%^&ing STOP playing against me?

Question #2: Sorry for question 1, I know I'm supposed to want these players at my table. But is there a point (the schooling theory) where Bad Play Pays?

Just about every analysis of poker concludes that loose-passive play is losing poker. My mind tells me that's correct. But in cheap (or free) SNGs I'm constantly getting put out by the guy above, or this guy:

Axs MP. Call with two others. LeFou limps the button. You flop the nut flush. You check, LeFou bets, you call. Turn is whatever. You check, LeFou bets, you call. River pairs the board. You check (!), LeFou bets, you call. LeFou shows a random flopped 2pair.

Question #3 (restatement of #2): When is it good to just sit there and check-call? Obviously it's good sometimes

fuming...

[drmcboy]

2) no

3) if the board paired, you either made a boat (i guess not) or your two pair was likely f-ed or you were beat already, why bet?

on your opp, I would think you would lay down a pair on a monotone board if he re raised, would you not? So... his play allows you to conitune to put money in the pot when you're beat. Also, if you happen to be drawing to a lower flush he wants to give you every chance to make it.

[TLR]

Both of your questions follow the same pattern, you are OOP and you bet strongly and get called, what do you do

On lower buy in Sngs (and lower buy in Sngs only) calling usually means one of three things:
1. villian is chasing (flush/str)
2. villian does not know if his hand is good or not (as your first example) - and hopes he gets lucky
3. villian is slowplaying a made hand (flush / set)

Low level Sng players are pretty much straight forward.
If there is obvious str8/flush on board: assume they are chasing it, bet the turn hard if it does not hit on the turn, if he calls again one of two things will happen on the river
A. the flush hits - check / fold if you are not pot comitted
B. The flush misses - In this case your only chase to extract more chips is to check and let them push AI in a bluff attempt.

In case there are no obvious draws its either case 2 or 3 above and they are hard to tell apart, however usually on a made hand the call is made immidatly and on a hand they are not sure about they will think for a second or two (OMG, he bets again, but I have A6 on a A72 board, no way he has an Ace, but maybe he does, OMG I dont know what to do, but yesterday I had A6 and I hit a 6 on the river, it will probably happen again, I will call...).
BTW more often then not this A6 guy will fold to your river bet (OMG, he pushed the river, if I call I am out of the tournament, OMG, OMG, OMG, fold) so betting a pretty small bet on the river (about the same as the turn bet) may save you some chips since you can still fold if he pushes.

[TLR]

Following your line of questions:
FTR Guantlet, final table, 8 remain, you are short stacked (about 8BB) on the SB, Lefou is the chip leader in the BB.
You have KK, it is folded to the CO of raises it to 3BB - what do you do ?
A. Push
B. Call
C. Fold

Correct answer is: C. Fold, sicne Lefou has AA

[LeFou]

on your opp, I would think you would lay down a pair on a monotone board if he re raised, would you not? So... his play allows you to conitune to put money in the pot when you're beat.

When I flop the joint HU, a check-call is practically a hard and fast rule. But three check-calls?

btw I remembered this wrong; I did not bet the river. For the reasons you stated. Kd or Qd plus a 6 or a 3 might call, possibly pp<6... that's about it.

[Trikflow77]

Okay I start with a badbeatish story but I lead to actual questions forthwith.

Okay, you're in a 3-table $10 SNG, blinds 15/30. You catch ATo in MP . Folded to you, you minraise (to 60). LeFou reraises you from LP to 150. You call. HU on flop:

Ace-rag-rag, uncoordinated. You check, LeFou bets 150. You call
Turn is nothing. You check, LeFou bets 450. You call.
River is a T. You checkraise LeFou and he shows AKs, which (I have to assume) is exactly what you thought he had the whole time.

Question #1: Will you please #$%^&ing STOP playing against me?

Question #2: Sorry for question 1, I know I'm supposed to want these players at my table. But is there a point (the schooling theory) where Bad Play Pays?

Just about every analysis of poker concludes that loose-passive play is losing poker. My mind tells me that's correct. But in cheap (or free) SNGs I'm constantly getting put out by the guy above, or this guy:

Axs MP. Call with two others. LeFou limps the button. You flop the nut flush. You check, LeFou bets, you call. Turn is whatever. You check, LeFou bets, you call. River pairs the board. You check (!), LeFou bets, you call. LeFou shows a random flopped 2pair.

Question #3 (restatement of #2): When is it good to just sit there and check-call? Obviously it's good sometimes

fuming...

on hand 1

If you get river checkraised.....you SHOULD be folding.....hell im not even betting the river half the time....the other half its a small small value bet.......

[LeFou]

...hell im not even betting the river half the time....the other half its a small small value bet.......

Why even that? (see my post above yours -- I remembered it wrong; in fact I did check behind) Of hands we beat, I'm only seeing A big diamond with a 3 or 6 calling anything, and those are fairly remote odds... Kxo? Qxo?

[Trikflow77]

...hell im not even betting the river half the time....the other half its a small small value bet.......

Why even that? (see my post above yours -- I remembered it wrong; in fact I did check behind) Of hands we beat, I'm only seeing A big diamond with a 3 or 6 calling anything, and those are fairly remote odds... Kxo? Qxo?

oh ok.....cool, i just read that and didnt scan the rest of the thread....easy check behind unless it is a passive donk, then i sometimes bet the river small.