TPTK early tourney

[bruinblue]

villian showing lots of strength by reraising me OOP preflop - i put him on AK, JJ-AA.

on the flop, any way im not gonna play this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t2275)
UTG+1 (t2080)
MP1 (t1300)
MP2 (t1895)
CO (t1425)
Hero (t1395)
SB (t1735)
BB (t1395)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
UTG raises to t100, 4 folds, Hero raises to t270, 2 folds, UTG raises to t440, Hero calls t170.

Flop: (t925) 5, 8, K (2 players)
UTG bets t500, Hero ?

[andy-akb]

On the flop you cant fold, by calling his 4bet PF you are going to be getting it in on any A or K flop because of your stack size.

If you put him on AK, JJ-AA then fold preflop because you are a dog to that range. If he has JJ or QQ he isnt going to stack off on a K or A high flop and you put yourself into tough spots like this where you are behind his range but given stacks really cant make much of an argument for folding.

UTG has won a decent amount of chips, how has he played?

I think Id rather push than call preflop and if you are sure of your read then fold.

[bruinblue]

i felt compelled to call here with position because the reraise was so small - otherwise, i would typically have shoved this preflop, as i felt AK, QQ, and JJ were the most likely hands

villian had played OK. won a decent pot by showing aggression on a scary board. wasnt really paying enough attention to have a solid read, spec at this stage

[andy-akb]

i felt compelled to call here with position because the reraise was so small - otherwise, i would typically have shoved this preflop, as i felt AK, QQ, and JJ were the most likely hands

villian had played OK. won a decent pot by showing aggression on a scary board. wasnt really paying enough attention to have a solid read, spec at this stage

Why does the size of the raise make you more likely to call it when you still think you are going to be behind? If he does have AA, how are you going to know and how would you get away from your hand on a Khigh board. Against a range like this AK doesnt do well, and its more than just the odds. We arent going to get much from him if he has a worse hand because he isnt stacking off with a hand like QQ or JJ if you hit.

[bruinblue]

thats true... i guess i was hoping for a crying bet from KK on an A board, etc

im a little rusty too, to be honest.

[FlyingSaucy]

to me, so much of this hand hinges on some important decisions preflop.

you can't reraise preflop here and get yourself too committed with the pot size, esp from an UTG raiser/rereraiser. Your reraise buys you the information you need, and when he rereraises that means he's got the goods and you have to dump. The only reason for reraising him here is to buy that info, and when he sells it to you, you have to use it and fold.

My play of choice, especially in early game, is a preflop call because it prevents the pot from bloating. The only issue is that you are going into the flop with less information. So if you just call, and hit the K, the flop is where you can test the waters rather than being put to the test with your TPTK. Plus, the pot size will be smaller so you'll have more chip leverage to do your "testing" of the waters.

[Aceofone]

Hero was button with a short stack early in tourney. Its possible that utg interpreted this as a tilty move from a crippled player.

With the min re-re-raise, I'm not giving him credit for AA, or KK, and I've got pot odds to chase anything else. I personally would have moved in preflop after his re-re-raise. Remember this is a sit'n'go, you have to win chips, and AK is one of the best to do it with.

::EDIT:: answer to original question: I re-raise allin, and take my lumps against AA.

[bruinblue]

im not exactly shortstacked here... the BB is only 30... my M is like 30 too

[Aceofone]

The first paragraph of post details what your opponent might be have been thinking. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

[taipan168]

Since you have position here, a reraise is fine IMO, no need to just flat call.

As played I push over his re-reraise preflop. As OP played preflop, I push over the flop bet. At low buyins there is no way I'm laying down an AK which has hit to what is probably a c-bet.

[FlyingSaucy]

As played I push over his re-reraise preflop. As OP played preflop, I push over the flop bet. At low buyins there is no way I'm laying down an AK which has hit to what is probably a c-bet.

So you're saying that you're getting it all in preflop (because you'll certainly be pot comitted post regardless of how much you come over the top of his 440).
To me that seems excessive considering that it is early in the game, you've got deep stacks, and the guy has already rereraised your reraise, and oh yea, you're holding AK. how much more info do you want from him? does his rereraise have to be a push?

[taipan168]

As played I push over his re-reraise preflop. As OP played preflop, I push over the flop bet. At low buyins there is no way I'm laying down an AK which has hit to what is probably a c-bet.

So you're saying that you're getting it all in preflop (because you'll certainly be pot comitted post regardless of how much you come over the top of his 440).
To me that seems excessive considering that it is early in the game, you've got deep stacks, and the guy has already rereraised your reraise, and oh yea, you're holding AK. how much more info do you want from him? does his rereraise have to be a push?

Yeah, Hero's stack is 1395. I'm not thrilled about putting in 440 chips (almost a third of my stack) preflop then folding 68% of the time when an A or K doesn't come.

If Hero wants to re-raise, he needs to push preflop to the re-re-raise. The other play (which FlyingSaucy you mention) would be to just flat call preflop and see if an A or K hits. With good position I tend to re-raise here.

Also, concerning OP's hand range for UTG of AK and JJ-AA, I think this is way too tight at the low buy-ins. I would include AQ, AJ and possibly AT and KQ in the range. Plus, given that it's level 2, unless OP has played UTG previously, how can he possibly have such an accurate read?

[bruinblue]

taipan - hand range based that he reraised me UTG, not on initial raise - that seemed to indicate much more strength than normal

[taipan168]

taipan - hand range based that he reraised me UTG, not on initial raise - that seemed to indicate much more strength than normal

Yeah, you're probably right there.

[Miffed22001]

would this hand play any differently if we reraise to 350 preflop and then opp either pushes or minireraises to 700ish?
Seems the reraise to 270 put us in a sticky situation vs our stack size (and yeah im back playing some sngs again, so im rusty too)

[ripjohngotti]

villian showing lots of strength by reraising me OOP preflop - i put him on AK, JJ-AA.

on the flop, any way im not gonna play this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t2275)
UTG+1 (t2080)
MP1 (t1300)
MP2 (t1895)
CO (t1425)
Hero (t1395)
SB (t1735)
BB (t1395)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
UTG raises to t100, 4 folds, Hero raises to t270, 2 folds, UTG raises to t440, Hero calls t170.

Flop: (t925) 5, 8, K (2 players)
UTG bets t500, Hero ?

You played this hand fine.

You could of flat called preflop or raised with AK suited, You have to call the additional reraise bet. Theres no way im getting off this hand post flop.

If you loose, Oh well. he probably doesnt have aces or kings

[ripjohngotti]

would this hand play any differently if we reraise to 350 preflop and then opp either pushes or minireraises to 700ish?
Seems the reraise to 270 put us in a sticky situation vs our stack size (and yeah im back playing some sngs again, so im rusty too)

You are confused...


Read the line again.


UTG makes it 100 hero makes it 270, UTG makes it 440.


Another 170 for Hero to call. 810 pot, and 170 to call.

Im not folding here. If he holding aa or kk which is unlikely it happens.

[Miffed22001]

would this hand play any differently if we reraise to 350 preflop and then opp either pushes or minireraises to 700ish?
Seems the reraise to 270 put us in a sticky situation vs our stack size (and yeah im back playing some sngs again, so im rusty too)

You are confused...


Read the line again.


UTG makes it 100 hero makes it 270, UTG makes it 440.


Another 170 for Hero to call. 810 pot, and 170 to call.

Im not folding here. If he holding aa or kk which is unlikely it happens.

if we make it 350 and opp 3bets we fold or push losing only 350