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How do you play these hands?

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  1. #1

    Default How do you play these hands?

    Hi Guys,

    It’s been awhile since my last post, but I’ve been trying to work on my MTT game, and have a couple of scenarios that I am curious as to how to be played.

    1 – Getting QQ the very first hand (applies to first couple of hands) in a tournament in any position and facing either an all-in call or an all-in re-raise. What do you do?

    2 – Playing a hand like AQs and getting a flop that is all rags. How do you proceed when faced with a pot sized bet if you don’t have a flush draw, and there are no straight/flush draws out there. i.e. 9d5c2h.

    3 – You have the hand AJ, and the flop comes J74 all rainbow. You check in early position, it goes around and the button bets ½ the pot. You re-raise him 3x his bet, everyone folds to the button, and he goes all in. Do you make the call. Assume you are in the middle of a tournament, and just got moved to a new table (i.e. no reads)

    4 – Late stages of a tournament. You have AhAd and decide to slow play it calling from early position. One person from middle position calls and the sb completes. The flop comes 7h4h2d. You check, the middle position checks, and the sb throws out a pot sized bet. The BB then pushes all in, what do you do?

    5 – You are the chip leader with 1,000,000, and there are 50 players left. The guy in second has 985,000 and the average chip stack is 100,000. Blinds are 4K-8K. You are in the money, and have been playing tight seeing no need to go in and donk off chips. The guy in second is at your table and has been stealing almost every hand. You are look down and see JsJc and decide that you are going to play this hand. The action comes to you and the guy in second place throws out his standard bet of 3xbb. You re-raise him to 3x his bet, and everyone folds to him. He flat calls and the flop comes JhTh2h. He checks, you throw out a pot sized bet, and he comes over the top all in. Do you make the call?

    6 – Same situation as above except you have AA and the flop comes 2,4,9 rainbow. The guy second in chips goes all in, do you make the call with your overpair AA?

    These are all situation that happened to me recently in various tournaments. I have them all in my notebook, and have been debating these ones in particular for awhile now. I’m hoping to facility some conversation, and get some reasoning behind why you make the play rather then the standard YES, NO. I’m curious as to how you guys would have played these hands. I’ll tell you how they turned out later, and no I did not lose all of them.

    Also in case it matters for some of you, assume that these hands came from 20+2 tourneys with at least 180 players.
  2. #2
    chardrian's Avatar
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    We need more info - especially stack sizes.

    But without the info here are my vague responses.

    1) I raise all-in with QQ early. There are too many donks who will overplay lower pairs and hands like AQ/AJ. If I lose to KK/AA oh well that's just a cooler.

    2) I fold AQs if someone is betting into me and I think I only have 6 outs at best.

    3) Hard to say since we dont know the preflop action - but I almost always will call with TPTK there.

    4) Pretty easy call - your opp's range easily includes flush draws, str8 draws and hands like A7 which you are crushing.

    5) Again pretty easy call - yes you could be behind, but you have tons of outs if you are and you are also very likely ahead.

    6) Only hands you are worried about are sets - pretty easy call.

    2)
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  3. #3
    Okay here is some additional information for Q3-4.

    3 - Stack sizes were as follows
    Hero 5,345
    MP 6,748
    MP3 3,246
    Button 8,495

    Blinds were 75/150. I started the betting at 3xbb so 450. MP, MP3, and Button called. Pot was now 2025. The flop came and I checked, everyone to the button checked and the the button threw out a bet of 1,000. I raised him to 3,000 and the MPs folded. The Button then raised me all in for his remaining 7045 chips, in to a pot of 6,025.

    4 - Stack sizes were as follows
    Hero 45,756
    MP 26,610
    SB 33,000
    BB 76,374

    Blinds were 2000/4000.
  4. #4
    I agree with chard, although I am mixed on 3) calling with TPTK in a raised pot on a rainbow board. I would have to have a strong feeling that I was being pushed around to call this. I also hate the flop check raise - why build a big pot with a small hand?

    6) is the only other one that's close, but I almost certainly call. Only 3 realistic hands beat you, and it's not like the guy is a nit.
  5. #5
    The dilema in the questions have more to do with the information given about your opponents and stack sizes. Does your opinion not change when you hit the late stages against people that can cripple your stack? As for Q1-2 I just wanted to see if anyone would fold in 1, and in 2 if anybody has some good advice on how to play this.
  6. #6
    Well here is what happened in the hands below.

    1 - This isn't a specific hand, but I'm fairly convinced that you have to call an all-in raise with QQ in the first couple hands of a tourney. I was curious to see if there is a limit where this move no longer becomes profitable. Say at the $100 buy in level or a $500, $1000, $10,000 dollar buy in. I.E. You won a seat to the world series of poker, and you face an all-in re-raise and you have QQ, do you make the call?

    2 - This is a tough one for me. I like to let this one go, but sometimes I like to call hoping to hit one of my outs, and then apply pressure to them. I base my decision most times on the size of the pot, and the likelyhood that if I do hit that I'm ahead, and able to extract the a large amount of his remaining chips.

    3 - I ended up loosing this one to KK. I find that because I have invested so much into the, and there is no way someone is drawing at a hand (i.e. semibluff) that with a check raise, that gets raised to all in, it's better to let the hand go. I've lost a lot of hands to trips this way, but check raising TPTK, and then getting put all in. Because I feel I've invested so much I call, but there are few hands that shove there chips in on that flop that I"m ahead of. The only ones I can think of are QJ & KJ, as well as a tie hand of AJ.

    4 - In this case I was up against two pair. I lost the hand, I have should have let it go. At least that's how I felt. I believe the key to this hand was that I was against the SB and BB on a rag flop. Because I didn't raise it before the flop, I let them see the flop cheaply with there rags that turned out to be the best.

    5 - I won this hand, as the guy had AhTc. Another heart came but so did another 2 giving me a full house on the river. I think you can play this hand agressively cause you have alot of outs even if he does have the flush. Because it was late in the tournament and he had a nut flush draw, I can see why he would play this aggresively. I think the correct play when facing someone like this and you don't have trips is to let the hand go. I.E. If you had KJ and it was a J high flop and you had no heart in your hand and you are facing an all-in raise from an aggressive chip monster, it's better to just let go of the hand.

    6 - Because the flop does not present any draws, you can only be looking at 4 different types of hands.

    1 - A9,A5,A4,A3,A2
    2 - Overpair TT+
    3 - A set, 99,44,22
    4 - A bluff, or a medium hand like 55-88 where he doesn't think you have the 9 or an over pair.

    In the particular case outlined below I was against a trip 9's and lost. I can't. The problem with calling his all-in is that you are quite often behind someone who has hit a set. It's an agressive bet, and hand 2 might make that play trying to protect there hand, and hand 1 might be semi-bluffing/thinking they have the best hand. #4 isn't as likely in the late stages, where there isn't really a need to be so agreesive. This is the hand that kept me up at night.
  7. #7
    chardrian's Avatar
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    You need to have really really good reads to lay down overpairs late in MTTs. Does your opp's betting pattern make sense for 99? Yes (if he is smart enough to put you on an overpair). But does it also make sense for any pocket pair on that flop? Yes.

    Sometimes you run into coolers in MTTs. Could you get away from that hand in a cashgame? Probably, but MTTs and cashgames are different cuz blinds don't increase every 15 minutes in a cashgame and you can keep adding chips to your stack. The fact that 22,44 and 99 were in your opp's range does not mean that you should have laid your AA down. The only way you should lay AA down there is if your opp's range does not include TT-KK there as well.... and I don't see how you can say his range does not include those hands.
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  8. #8
    The thing was, the pot was like 150 K, I threw out a pot sized bet of 150 K bringing the total pot to 300K. He re-raised me 800K all in. That's a huge raise into a decent pot, but had I folded I still would have had 850,000 chips. That's 8.5x the average stack, and would have made me third in chips. There are about 50 players left and with my stack there are plenty of opportunities to build my stack back up. Just seemed like a bad spot to get my chips in when if he wins I'm crippled, If I win, I'm a big, big chip leader.

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