i feel like im getting donked to death

[bruinblue]

this is a half a bad beat half question post

so whenever i put in cbets or raise pf trying to pick up pots it seems like a big trend on stars lately is to minraise. only problem is that i tend to make standard bets/raises so when i get minraised, its for a substantial amount and in general i cannot call them. should i adjust my betting amounts for the level that im playing at ($11 PS one table) or should i just play as normal and pray that i pick up some more cards so i can shove wins down the donk bettors throats?

p.s. it also drives me nuts when youre playing against a guy who gets KJo as his worst hand for like 15 mins when youre sitting there mucking T8o for 3 orbits. that is all. peace. etc.

if you're not calling or coming over the top of their minraises, you're raising with too many hands. be patient, even if you have to fold two or three orbits in a row, it happens. then push your strong hands preflop.

[baudib]

The general donkishness of low-stakes play is increasing, IMO.

Yesterday I saw donks limp and then call raises for 30 percent of their stacks with four-deuce offsuit and Q4s AND then call all-ins when they flop 4s.

[taipan168]

The general donkishness of low-stakes play is increasing, IMO.

Yesterday I saw donks limp and then call raises for 30 percent of their stacks with four-deuce offsuit and Q4s AND then call all-ins when they flop 4s.

I have noticed this too. It can be frustrating when you are cold carded, your stack has been blinded away to say 1200, blinds are 75/150 and donks are limping in in front removing your open pushing opportunities.

[Da GOAT]

this is a half a bad beat half question post

so whenever i put in cbets or raise pf trying to pick up pots it seems like a big trend on stars lately is to minraise. only problem is that i tend to make standard bets/raises so when i get minraised, its for a substantial amount and in general i cannot call them. should i adjust my betting amounts for the level that im playing at ($11 PS one table) or should i just play as normal and pray that i pick up some more cards so i can shove wins down the donk bettors throats?

p.s. it also drives me nuts when youre playing against a guy who gets KJo as his worst hand for like 15 mins when youre sitting there mucking T8o for 3 orbits. that is all. peace. etc.

okay its tough but here. you one table so boredom can creep in so you play more maybe. personaally i find this doesnt happen to often as im very very tight early on so my raises will be respected and if not i may have reads at that stage.

takes ages not to tilt as bad as when you first start.

[bruinblue]

i meant one table as in STTs... i six/seven table them

[taipan168]

Check out this shit. These are today's PS $10+1 players. I didn't convert it because I wanted you to see my comment. Normally I never tap on the aquarium but I just couldn't stop myself this time.

POKERSTARS GAME #6165248608: TOURNAMENT #31255281, $10+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL III (25/50) - 2006/09/04 - 08:38:55 (ET)
Table '31255281 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jorgo V (635 in chips)
Seat 2: Chas3912 (2485 in chips)
Seat 3: Askeladden86 (3045 in chips)
Seat 4: taipan168 (1665 in chips)
Seat 5: CTBob (1340 in chips)
Seat 6: littlejo4 (420 in chips)
Seat 8: Maverick1756 (2215 in chips)
Seat 9: thelob24 (1695 in chips)
Chas3912: posts small blind 25
Askeladden86: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [As Qs]
taipan168: raises 100 to 150
CTBob: folds
littlejo4: calls 150
Maverick1756: folds
thelob24: folds
Jorgo V: folds
Chas3912: folds
Askeladden86: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s 9d 7d]
taipan168: bets 270
littlejo4: calls 270 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [4s 9d 7d] [3s]
*** RIVER *** [4s 9d 7d 3s] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
taipan168: shows [As Qs] (high card Ace)
littlejo4: shows [Jd 8c] (high card Jack)
taipan168 collected 915 from pot
taipan168 said, "HEE HAW"
Maverick1756 said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 915 | Rake 0
Board [4s 9d 7d 3s 6h]
Seat 1: Jorgo V (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Chas3912 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Askeladden86 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: taipan168 showed [As Qs] and won (915) with high card Ace
Seat 5: CTBob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: littlejo4 showed [Jd 8c] and lost with high card Jack
Seat 8: Maverick1756 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: thelob24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Da GOAT]

i meant one table as in STTs... i six/seven table them

oh okay. well i play very tight so this doesnt happen to often before lvl 3 say.

[GatorJH]

Check out this shit. These are today's PS $10+1 players. I didn't convert it because I wanted you to see my comment. Normally I never tap on the aquarium but I just couldn't stop myself this time.

POKERSTARS GAME #6165248608: TOURNAMENT #31255281, $10+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL III (25/50) - 2006/09/04 - 08:38:55 (ET)
Table '31255281 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jorgo V (635 in chips)
Seat 2: Chas3912 (2485 in chips)
Seat 3: Askeladden86 (3045 in chips)
Seat 4: taipan168 (1665 in chips)
Seat 5: CTBob (1340 in chips)
Seat 6: littlejo4 (420 in chips)
Seat 8: Maverick1756 (2215 in chips)
Seat 9: thelob24 (1695 in chips)
Chas3912: posts small blind 25
Askeladden86: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [As Qs]
taipan168: raises 100 to 150
CTBob: folds
littlejo4: calls 150
Maverick1756: folds
thelob24: folds
Jorgo V: folds
Chas3912: folds
Askeladden86: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s 9d 7d]
taipan168: bets 270
littlejo4: calls 270 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [4s 9d 7d] [3s]
*** RIVER *** [4s 9d 7d 3s] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
taipan168: shows [As Qs] (high card Ace)
littlejo4: shows [Jd 8c] (high card Jack)
taipan168 collected 915 from pot
taipan168 said, "HEE HAW"
Maverick1756 said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 915 | Rake 0
Board [4s 9d 7d 3s 6h]
Seat 1: Jorgo V (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Chas3912 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Askeladden86 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: taipan168 showed [As Qs] and won (915) with high card Ace
Seat 5: CTBob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: littlejo4 showed [Jd 8c] and lost with high card Jack
Seat 8: Maverick1756 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: thelob24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

These donks are our friends. We should welcome them with open arms (and wallets) to our tables. Yes, the bad beats will be frustrating (such as the back to back hands where my AK got sucked out on by A9 and A7), but you should also be able to dominate these games with some patience.

[bruinblue]

those are the kinds of hands im talking about though

like for it would be typical if the guy min raises me to 540 with a deep stack - theres no way i can call that with just overcards etc...

and then yesterday i get HU with a guy and after he sucks out a split on the first hand he says "when im HU im all in" and then goes all in every hand for like 12 hands and i barely get a face card and end up losing...

donk factor on stars = so high right now if you cant beat it youre not very good

[bruinblue]

i am going to kill someone if this keeps happening

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP (t1500)
Hero (t1490)
Button (t1920)
SB (t1400)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1190)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to t80, 2 folds, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t170) 2, 6, 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t125, BB raises to t250, Hero folds.

[Rondavu]

In loose games, you should be limping more, and only raising a small range. The idea is to make a hand before you bet. You find yourself continuing into missed flops against people who will check raise bottom pair.

Rag boards are non equity boards against reasonably loose players. These kind of players always think you missed with overs when the rags flop. What I do against these players is I check behind a missed rag flop, and if checked to when/if a broadway hits the turn, I bet then. It's more believable.

You need more than your average fold equity against loose players when you don't have a hand. I've often checked around with ace high against the loosest fish, just because it has showdown value, and the board was weird.

Your value is gained by betting your hands, and having the fish make multiple mistakes in calling or raising with the worst hand at low levels. Live it, love it.

[bruinblue]

i live it for sure... i think i love it too lol

a little frustrating as of late. thanks to all posters who took the q seriously - i really think stars has been donkified the last month after a month of pretty solid all around played

[GatorJH]

i really think stars has been donkified the last month after a month of pretty solid all around played

After the last few turbos ($15+1) I have playes I CERTAINLY agree with this.

[Genitruc]

Semi-hijack :

What is the possible explanation for this donkoriffic trend? Are all the good players leaving sit n gos for cash?

I played an 18 man 55$+5 turbo the other day with a friend just for kicks and ran each of my opponents through Sharkscope. There were 2 winning players besides me. Wtf. The avg roi was around -10%. These guys were thousands in the hole.

Like seriously maybe it's time to start playing sit n go's again?

[GatorJH]

Semi-hijack :

What is the possible explanation for this donkoriffic trend? Are all the good players leaving sit n gos for cash?

I played an 18 man 55$+5 turbo the other day with a friend just for kicks and ran each of my opponents through Sharkscope. There were 2 winning players besides me. Wtf. The avg roi was around -10%. These guys were thousands in the hole.

Like seriously maybe it's time to start playing sit n go's again?

I think it coincides with ESPN beginning their coverage of the 2006 WSOP.

[bruinblue]

i like that wsop theory. good commentary... for a gator =)

[baudib]

I agree on the comment about limiting your raising range. But when you have a hand, bet it/overplay it to some extent.

Forget about slowplaying altogether though. It's not necessary. You can flop nut fullhouses, overbet the flop and get called down by ridiculous gutshots or just overs or 22.

[baudib]

I think the ESPN factor is a good reason. Furthermore, Daniel Negreanu has done well in most of the ESPN circuit events shown this year, and, of course, Negreanu probably plays rags more profitably than anyone in the world.

[bruinblue]

which is awesome in some ways because these people think its ok to call raises with T6s. of course when you have AA and the flop comes T63 its a little annoying...

dont people realize they only get shown the hands where theres an interesting story? that the button moves more than one person per hand shown? that if daniel negreanu flopped two pair or top pair or a flush draw every time, he would never lose (not that he really does)? its amazing how stupid some of the people playing poker right now are

[donkbee]

its amazing how stupid some of the people playing poker right now are

And by amazing you mean fantastic, great and perfect, right? It's awesome.