Good advice is not always great advice

[Cavelli2003]

first of all i have to say that i do think that proper bankroll management is a must which is why the next thing i am going to write will make alot of players cringe,

recently i have been playing with a bankroll of $1000 about £500 for us brits, and have been playing as i should ( ie $10 MTT's ) but was seriously getting upset with the amount of bad beats and poor players it seemed that although i was doing everything right ( well as right as one can ) other people's mistakes were costing me alot of money, eeven though i was still a profitable player i knew i could do better, so i chanced two higher buy-in tournament's and found myself in my element, won $400 putting my bankroll up to $1400, was willing to to carry on playing at this level then i came on here and got some advice came to my sense's and went back down to the $10 buyin's and back to bingo ! dropped my bankroll down to just over $1300,

having some money in savings i thought stuff it ! i'm willing to take a one off Risk if i lose it all i would put in another $1000 and start again at the $10 buyin's but i just had to try and:
A. prove myself right that this is the level i can do better at ,or
B. everyone else is right and i would get carved up

well i didnt get carved up and have now have $5374.84 in my account in just a couple of days ( NO DOUBT ALOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH LUCK )
but in imo, a very large part of this is due to the fact that other people's mistakes were not costing me large portions of my stack, and also because i was playing with better players i too had to be very aware of not making mistakes myself,

take whatever you want from this post i thought i was right and i was and i would say to anyone just starting out in poker to find the level of play that you can play your best at and get the bankroll to play at that level even if it means working in a job and saving the bankroll before you play ( or be stupid like me and take the risk - dont risk your house or spank the credit cards tho!! ), and while your not playing keep notes and just watch all the regular players that you will be playing with for when you do sit down with them, or spend forever trying to build a brankroll to get up to the next level by playing the smaller stakes.

no doubt there will be a lot of hate post's coming in after this ! but i'm still standing by it !! - until proven otherwise, just have to see what happens in the next 12 months, but i am confident that i can make a good profit by this time next year.

P.S - all MTT's played had under 200 runners, which is normal for the site which i play on, ( average entrants were between 60-160 depending on the time of day )

[drmcboy]

other people's mistakes were not costing me large portions of my stack

this is truly wrongheaded.

gl.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

so i chanced two higher buy-in tournament's and found myself in my element, won $400 putting my bankroll up to $1400

Well WCOOP is going on right now. You should be right in your element with the bigger buy-in tourneys.

[thenonsequitur]

i thought i was right and i was

Ask yourself if you're being too results oriented. (sounds to me like you are)

other people's mistakes were not costing me large portions of my stack

this is truly wrongheaded.

QFT

[mcatdog]

Cavelli,

When bad players make mistakes against us, we profit from those mistakes. Also, fish exist at every buy-in level and if you can't beat them for $10, you won't be able to beat them for $200 either. Since you lack an understanding of how we make money in poker and you don't seem to have the self-discipline to play within your bankroll, I predict you will go bust within one month.

The bankroll advice on this website is there to help you, and the people responding to you in this thread only want to help you as well. Good luck.

[CDN Panther]

hmm. I'm not gonna hate on his post, and for some people this may sound illogical, but you can make money sometimes at a higher buy-in cause you are not as succeptible to tilt. When you play a $10 buy in and watch your AA all in pre flop get cracked by 79os, it puts you on tilt. So you fire up another tourney and then play on tilt cause of your bad beat.

If you play a $20 tourney the odds of having your AA cracked all in preflop by an idiot is alot less, so you seem to tilt alot less. You also notice more folds if your an agressive player, so I can see why it might be possible for some players to play much better as they go to higher, and higher limits.

It's the same thing others complain about. My name is X and I crush $10 tourneys, I start to play $20 tourneys and my conservative rock play doesn't get me to the FT. What am I doing wrong?

Just some food for thought.

[sandstorm]

the ONLY thing we profit from in poker is other people's mistakes. higher stakes = less mistakes = smaller edge

If you play a $20 tourney the odds of having your AA called all in preflop by an idiot is alot less

fixed your post. see where your thinking might be wrong?

[scarface737]

since u dont have a plan u should play all different types of buy ins, learn how to beat all types of players, and make yourself a much better poker player.

gl with poker tell me how ur next month goes.

[Phantaroth]

My AA just got cracked by Q7.

Yeah I got pissed and went on my little "freakin donk" rant, but I know that this is what I want to see happen. AA vs Q7 = $$$$$$$.

I just have to work on my temper. I've learned not to Tilt atleast.

[KoRnholio]

Worse players = higher winrate + higher variance.

[CDN Panther]

All I was trying to get across is that if you have problems with tilting cause of a really bad beat, then you are better off playing higher stakes. The higher the stakes the less likely you will get your AA cracked, sure you may not make as much off your AA, but what good is that in a large field tourney if you double up the first five times you have AA, but then lose with them once, and go on tilt donating the rest of your chips. If you play higher stakes, you may not get as much value from your AA, but you will also not go on tilt cause nobody will go in with hands like 34s and call your all in when you have AA.

I think it's a simple question of how susceptible you are to going on tilt and being in control of your emotions if you suffer a rediculous bad beat. By rediculous I mean, hands that get called that no rational person should call. The other day my AA got called by 79os. I won, but I can also see how if my AA got cracked all in pre-flop by 79os I would have lost it.

To each there own, but I can see how some players might just be better off at higher limits, where the edge is smaller, but ones ability to constantly apply there edge will win them money. At lower stakes you stand to gain more by playing with donkeys, but if you know that losing once to a donkey call will put you on tilt, then what good is your ability to gain more chips.

Just my 2 cents.

[Pyroxene]

All I was trying to get across is that if you have problems with tilting cause of a really bad beat, then you are better off playing higher stakes. The higher the stakes the less likely you will get your AA cracked, sure you may not make as much off your AA, but what good is that in a large field tourney if you double up the first five times you have AA, but then lose with them once, and go on tilt donating the rest of your chips. If you play higher stakes, you may not get as much value from your AA, but you will also not go on tilt cause nobody will go in with hands like 34s and call your all in when you have AA.

If someone goes on tilt because their All-In PF with AA was called and cracked by Q7o, their problem is not that idiots are calling their AA with Q7, their problem is that they are going on tilt when it happens and the AA's get cracked. They need to practice discipline so they do not tilt, they do not need to find better players that will not call such an All-In with Q7.

[baron_greenback]

I do undertand the point being made in the original post. I play $5 sngs and occassionally get frustrated by the amount of times get busted out by ridiculous calls/bets from por players. I often feel I'm guilty of giving them too much respect, and assuming that when they bet, they do so holding something reasonable.

Often this leads me to make mistakes, as I am prone to call hands thinking 'nah, no-one ever has the flush they're representing' and then I bust out.

I think this might be the problem for the original poster. what he's found is that when he moves up, he concentrates far more, and plays his own game correctly, and so he is seeing short term benefits. I've done the same, but unforunately if you don't have the bankroll, a few bad beats are far costlier, and you start to chase yourself, which is a recipe for disaster.

[Cavelli2003]

hi ya ppl, quick update for ya !

been busy the past few days so haven't been playing as much had a few losses nothing major bankroll is still increasing tho, up to $5,800 something,

and enjoying playing online more than i ever have infact for the first time in a long while i love it.
playing at the lower stakes just grinded me down and i now feel alot more focused and involved in the game actually feels like im playing poker and not bingo,

the main factors i think ! of why im enjoying it more playing at the higher buy-in's is because these games seem to start at what feels like the middle stages of a $5 or $10 MTT's and you can limp in with suited connectors etc more often where-as in the $5 and $10 MTT you just cant do things like this because most of the time you are having to gamble large percentage's of your stack pre-flop and i know!! play the correct way and you will eventually come out on top and making a profit but i just wasnt enjoying it.

playing where i am now feels more like what poker is supposed to be actually getting involved in pots and out-smarting your opponents and not making mistakes and this is what i love and when i do get knocked out i sit there and go over the hand and situation again to see whether i should have played that hand different rather than taking another bad-beat that just grinds you down ( well me anyway ) i'm actually learning more and improving my game whether im playing in the tournament or ive just been knocked out,

lately when i do get knocked out i tend to find myself saying i played that hand wrong or i didn't read him correctly or hey thats poker !

i'm earning more playing at these stakes than i ever have at $5 and $10 MTT's and i know ROI goes down the higher stakes you play at but enjoyment goes up the higher im playing at and the more im enjoying it the better im playing " its a nice cylce " ( not that i have the urge to play high stakes just yet ) but hopefully one day, but for now im happy where i am!

hopefully i can make it at this level and then to the next, i'll keep you informed,

thanks for all the advice and your opinions keep em coming,
all the best and good luck at the tables,