Final Tables

[baron_greenback]

Last night I made my 3rd final table in a week, playing in a $15 freezeout on betfred.

I finished 10th though, and the other 2 I came 3rd and 7th. My overall mtt game is getting quite good, but I just can't seem to close out to make it to the really decent money.

For example, last night I lost a huge hand with about 30 players remaining, yet still managed to play really well to get myself back into contention. I was sitting 5th when it went down to the final table.

I was dealt AdQd and had around 20,000 in chips. Blinds were 1,000 and 2,000. The chip leader had been puting in lots of bets pre-flop, and managed to steal fairly often. He had about double me, and put a bet of 5,000 in. A player with half my stack then went all-in. I was expecting the bet from this player, as he was on blind next and had been getting desperate.

So, I went all-in over the top, hoping to isolate him for heads-up, knowing I was okay if I lost, and that if I won I would be within a few chips of the leader. Unfortunately the chip leader called, and turned over QQ. Small stack showed KJos and hit 2 Kings, and the best I got was 2 diamonds on the flop.

I know i didn't play this correctly, but how bad really was it? This is just an example of my final table play. Am I trying to hard to get to the top too early (I think large blinds scare me) or are risks at FTs worth taking?

All help appreciated, and I apologise if I haven't laid this out correctly as I am relatively new to mtts and to the site.

[Sprayed]

With your read on big stack and shorty I don't think that you played it incorrectly. You have to increase your stack in order to be a viable candidate for 1st. You just ran into a monster with the big stack and shorty got lucky. Part of the game. Keep playing as you are and to quote Chardrian, take advantage of small % situations.

[drmcboy]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 28.6941 % 28.23% 00.46% { AQs, AQo }
Hand 2: 46.7998 % 46.34% 00.46% { QQ }
Hand 3: 24.5062 % 24.38% 00.12% { KJs, KJo }


The spot you ended up in isn't bad. If chip leader folds like he probably often will, it's great.

[baron_greenback]

I'm at another final table, arrived bout 4th in chips.

Should I be looking to stay tight til its down to the last 5 or 6, or should I be playing aggressive to get a chip lead?

edit - game just finished. I came 2nd, and won $150 - was only $3 entry and I never got a rebuy or add-on, so I'm happy enough

Final hand I had Ah3h against his As4c - both all-in pre-flop (he had nearly double my chips) Flop was A24, and I never caught my 5.

[drmcboy]

don't play rebuys if you can't rebuy a few times and add on.

[baron_greenback]

don't play rebuys if you can't rebuy a few times and add on.

I had the funds to rebuy, but never had to as I built a decent stack quite early.

I'm also not convinced on the worthiness of add-ons. Going into the add-on break I was in the top 10 chip stacks, with around 10,000. Is it really worth paying to add an extra 1,000 to that? How vital will those chips really be later on?

[thenonsequitur]

I had the funds to rebuy, but never had to as I built a decent stack quite early.

You should always take an initial rebuy to double your initial stack ASAP.

I'm also not convinced on the worthiness of add-ons. Going into the add-on break I was in the top 10 chip stacks, with around 10,000. Is it really worth paying to add an extra 1,000 to that? How vital will those chips really be later on?

There gets to be a point that the add-ons aren't worth it, but I think that point is when the add-on adds less than 5% to your stack. So with an add-on of 1000 chips, I'll take if my stacks is 20k or less. When the add-on is 10% of your stack as in the example you gave I definitely take the add-on.

[A10Chief]

Yeah, don't add 1,000 on to a 10,000 stack. I don't play rebuys myself, but I have heard a good rule is that if it doesn't add 20% to your stack that it isn't really worth it. Anyways man, it sounds like you're on the right track so welcome to this forum and plz post a lot of hands so we can discuss.

[drmcboy]

15. How should I play rebuys?
There is no set in stone way, here are a few guidelines:

2+2ers generally like to take an immediate rebuy (double your stack before you play the first hand) but many don’t do this. Taking the add-on however is all but compulsory, the only real time you shouldn’t be taking it is when you have very few chips at the end of the rebuy period and have given up on cashing in the tournament. In other words, passing on the add-on is tantamount to giving up on the tournament completely.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post4202217

I want some math before we go against the collected wisdom of 2+2.

[Sprayed]

I don't know, I'm always the mind set that if I get a hand that I can double up with I would rather have 3000 chips instead of 1500 chips (ex. of Stars starting chips stack). Double-up to 6000 instead of 3000. I always add-on at the end because I am rarely if ever a super huge stack after the first hour.

[baron_greenback]

The tournament I was playing in (and all tournaments on betfred - think its Noble network) only allow rebuys when you are out, and there is one 5 min add-on break after the first hour.

My only opportunity to add-on was as I said, when i felt it was unecessary.

Cheers for the advice though guys. I'm playing a $5 rebuy at the moment, and am 15 minutes away from the add-on break with just over double my starting stack. 1,500 chips onto a stack of 4,000 - I think I'll take the add-on here.

[drmcboy]

btw, my comment was regarding the add on, I always double rebuy at the start. Whenever I get down to 1.5 buyins or less, I am looking to gamble so I can rebuy again.

[baron_greenback]

I'm currently in the final 3 of the $2000 guaranteed on betfred.

I have 50,000 chips, 2nd place has 100,000 and 1st has 150,000.

Any advice other than just push any good hand?

Thanks.

Oh yeah bb is 5,000

[baron_greenback]

Finished 2nd, which I thought was very good under the circumstances.

I hardly got any hands.

$361.80 - my biggest ever win!

I'm definitely getting better, and the threads on this site are helping. I made my first post last week and have since FT'd 5 MTTs (on betfred/noble)

This was my 2nd 2nd place finish in one day!!

[gus27]

you have a great opportunity to learn from your mistakes here. Final tables are tricky, when you are unexperienced at them, I had to get a few under my belt before i even felt comfortable playing one.

for your 10th place finish run the same situation through your mind, but forget it's a final table. You have 1200: blinds are 100/200, you are last to act after a raise and allin reraise of 600, do you call or wait for a better spot?

I would have to say in that situation I fold. Your read certainly seemed solid, however I would have a different perspective...This guy with half your stack (10,000) reraises all in into a 40,000 stack that has to call 5,000 more into a pot of 18,000 plus antes? The shortstack cannot think he has any fold equity here whatsoever, I would put him on a solid hand. (of course i would have been wrong). The preceding analysis assumes you are in the BB and your opponents are in the sb and button, am i right?

I've posted two Final Table HH in the past couple weeks here. On one i think i played rather poorly, and the other I played quite well, and got some fantastic cards. I'd be interested in your opinion.

[baron_greenback]

you have a great opportunity to learn from your mistakes here. Final tables are tricky, when you are unexperienced at them, I had to get a few under my belt before i even felt comfortable playing one.

for your 10th place finish run the same situation through your mind, but forget it's a final table. You have 1200: blinds are 100/200, you are last to act after a raise and allin reraise of 600, do you call or wait for a better spot?

I would have to say in that situation I fold. Your read certainly seemed solid, however I would have a different perspective...This guy with half your stack (10,000) reraises all in into a 40,000 stack that has to call 5,000 more into a pot of 18,000 plus antes? The shortstack cannot think he has any fold equity here whatsoever, I would put him on a solid hand. (of course i would have been wrong). The preceding analysis assumes you are in the BB and your opponents are in the sb and button, am i right?

I've posted two Final Table HH in the past couple weeks here. On one i think i played rather poorly, and the other I played quite well, and got some fantastic cards. I'd be interested in your opinion.

Cheers, there's some really good advice there.

As you can see from my posts, I'm in new territory here (up until last week I had never been on a poker forum, or analysed a hand)

I am used to playing sit & gos, but I think you are right, its about getting comfortable on finl tables. Basically what you have said is kind of what I was thinking when i went over the hand in my head when I first posted. I think I made the wrong move, and should have thought more about what was going on, but got a bit caught up in the moment

As you can see though, I made 2 FTs in the last 24 hours, and came 2nd in them both. Fair enough, that's a bit of luck, but I think it shows I am improving a bit. I think the next step is to actually start using programs to track my results and my HHs, as that seems to be helpful to everyone.

Does anyone on here play on the same network as me, or does everyone play on pokerstars/partypoker? I think its noble I'm playing on - its the one with the 'jackpot sit & go' section.

[Benoso]

you have a great opportunity to learn from your mistakes here. Final tables are tricky, when you are unexperienced at them, I had to get a few under my belt before i even felt comfortable playing one.

for your 10th place finish run the same situation through your mind, but forget it's a final table. You have 1200: blinds are 100/200, you are last to act after a raise and allin reraise of 600, do you call or wait for a better spot?

I would have to say in that situation I fold. Your read certainly seemed solid, however I would have a different perspective...This guy with half your stack (10,000) reraises all in into a 40,000 stack that has to call 5,000 more into a pot of 18,000 plus antes? The shortstack cannot think he has any fold equity here whatsoever, I would put him on a solid hand. (of course i would have been wrong). The preceding analysis assumes you are in the BB and your opponents are in the sb and button, am i right?

I've posted two Final Table HH in the past couple weeks here. On one i think i played rather poorly, and the other I played quite well, and got some fantastic cards. I'd be interested in your opinion.

Cheers, there's some really good advice there.

As you can see from my posts, I'm in new territory here (up until last week I had never been on a poker forum, or analysed a hand)

I am used to playing sit & gos, but I think you are right, its about getting comfortable on finl tables. Basically what you have said is kind of what I was thinking when i went over the hand in my head when I first posted. I think I made the wrong move, and should have thought more about what was going on, but got a bit caught up in the moment

As you can see though, I made 2 FTs in the last 24 hours, and came 2nd in them both. Fair enough, that's a bit of luck, but I think it shows I am improving a bit. I think the next step is to actually start using programs to track my results and my HHs, as that seems to be helpful to everyone.

Does anyone on here play on the same network as me, or does everyone play on pokerstars/partypoker? I think its noble I'm playing on - its the one with the 'jackpot sit & go' section.

Yeah it's the same network as Noble, FairPoker etc.

I believe the network's called iPoker.