HOH2, orange zone strategy

[boomr1]

I read and re read this part because i feel like i'm stuck in the orange zone situation when I don't get the fortunate double up early on. I go by the book when playing this strategy, switch it up a little here and there, but what i find happens a lot to me (and probably a lot of others) is when using the first-in vigorish-raising with weaker hands in position, (ussually i'll make it 2.5 xbb at this stage) I find that many times people will come over the top of you from the blinds, this happens a lot during the tourney also, ussually i'll fold if i'm just trying to take the blinds unless i've seen the opponent making this re-raise do it before a couple times, then based on what i have i'll determine if its in my calling range. But the thing that gets more complicated for me in the orange zone is if i do get re-raised...most likely it'll put me all in and its tough to lay down seeing how i really won't have much left. So, whats ur play here...if your getting 2-1 do u call? or just lay it down and continue playin in the red zone....idk? been having some trouble here....

[Sprayed]

It depends. In the orange zone or when you have less than a 10 of M, you should be looking to double-up. This is were small pp and suited connectors are not worth playing. If you know that the blinds will reraise you, set them up with a hand that you want to go all the way with. Just standard raise it and push over their reraise. I would be looking to steal less and actually want action so that I can double up. In order to do that you have to have a decent hand. The other thing is that if you are in the blinds and you have a feeling that someone is trying to steal, based on previous hands, with your stack you can reraise for a resteal. If they fold great, if not, you have a chance to double up.

Also, know that your stack really can’t stand a lot of pressure, so at times it may be more ideal for you to push all in. With hands like AJ+ and 66-JJ, I will normally just push. I want to either take the blinds down or see all five cards with these hands. I will standard raise usually with QQ+ because I want someone to call. If I go busto so be it. With all of these hands I will usually push over other raises. Don’t forget that this is all situational and these hands aren’t set in stone so don’t play like a robot.

[drmcboy]

usually you shouldn't be raising a hand at this point unless you're willing to go with it getting 2/1. Maybe if the one super tight guy at the table re raises and you have 77 you can get away. post some examples.

[Eric]

Part 9 of HOH2 is very important and we're scheduled to discuss it in detail in the book club forum shortly: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-43308.htm

I like to play the 180 player SnGs on PokerStars and there are lots of players stuck in the orange zone(M of 6 to 10) late in the tournament. Hopefully you guys can join us in the book club discussion when we get to this section.

[gus27]

I have had the same experience in the orange zone. I think a big factor is stack size of your opponents. If your trying to steal from the button or CO any BB with a decent size stack will reraise in my experience. However up against a fellow orange zone player your 2-3x raise may look threatening. They certainly will think twice before coming over top because it will most likely commit all of their chips.

I've been trying the old stop and go in the orange zone. I'll call a late position raise from the bb and than push the flop, the down side is if it works and your opponent folds you havn't doubled up, but you have a little bit of breathing room, this seems more beneficial later in the tournament where M may be low but Q is at average

[A10Chief]

Pushing into big or small stacks is asking for trouble. I consider myself lucky if I have two other medium-smallish stacks to my left because at this stage everyone is tightening up their calling range. I just tell myself if I can average one steal per orbit I will maintain until I get a break one way or the other. I think this is one area where the better players have a large edge over the rest of us.

[jdubs]

This sounds all too familiar. I think for myself, I get too conservative in the orange zone, and painfully dwindle down to red zone push/fold desperation. Problem is, especially in the lower orange range ( 6-7 M), a 2.5 or 3BB raise really commits you anyways, so youre pretty much in a push/fold situation already. near the top, you can make a move and get away from it, but then have to fight as a short stack which sucks. I think in certain situations (multiple limpers, with a marginal hand like QK, or even worse, late pos.) you have to be ready to push to take dead money, if someone is trapping with a big hand, oh well. You dont want to go to a flop too much in the orange zone. IMO.

[A10Chief]

Here's an interesting thread from 2+2 that deals with pushing over limpers to feed your stack. I think it can be effective when you are at M=7-10 to keep from ending up in the bottom of the orange zone

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post7270998

[ripjohngotti]

Here's an interesting thread from 2+2 that deals with pushing over limpers to feed your stack. I think it can be effective when you are at M=7-10 to keep from ending up in the bottom of the orange zone

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post7270998

Make sure their stack is around your range also.

[Sprayed]

Here's an interesting thread from 2+2 that deals with pushing over limpers to feed your stack. I think it can be effective when you are at M=7-10 to keep from ending up in the bottom of the orange zone

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post7270998

Here's an example. I make this play a few times through the tourney when I get below 10M. I like doing this when close or on the bubble because people tend to tighten-up. This is a $4.40 180 man with around 27 left. I have an M of 8 and the table has been limping a lot. I figured that I probably have the best hand or I'm close since everyone has limped.

If I get called I don't have that bad of a hand and I can use the double-up to coast into the money and make a move to get to the FT. If I bust that's ok because I wouldn't be much of a threat just squeaking into the money. Yes, I may find a better spot, but I like my chances here. This play will work better at higher buy-ins normally because most know that they can't call. Fortunately and unfortunately, simonson33 chose to call off 70% of his stack with KQc.

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 56.4124 % 56.18% 00.24% { ATo }
Hand 2: 43.5876 % 43.35% 00.24% { KQs }


Never mind the results.


PokerStars Game #6430045370: Tournament #32631566, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2006/09/26 - 19:02:41 (ET)
Table '32631566 2' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Brooklyn999 (6310 in chips)
Seat 2: simonson33 (6068 in chips)
Seat 3: Daff66 (13361 in chips)
Seat 4: frubud (11190 in chips)
Seat 5: ISBNread (8866 in chips)
Seat 6: czares (5319 in chips)
Seat 7: Sprayed (4165 in chips)
Seat 8: tracybmc (6135 in chips)
Seat 9: linemanbrian (10958 in chips)
Brooklyn999: posts the ante 25
simonson33: posts the ante 25
Daff66: posts the ante 25
frubud: posts the ante 25
ISBNread: posts the ante 25
czares: posts the ante 25
Sprayed: posts the ante 25
tracybmc: posts the ante 25
linemanbrian: posts the ante 25
czares: posts small blind 100
Sprayed: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sprayed [Ah Ts]
tracybmc: folds
linemanbrian: folds
Brooklyn999: folds
simonson33: calls 200
Daff66: folds
frubud: folds
ISBNread: folds
czares: calls 100
Sprayed: raises 3940 to 4140 and is all-in
simonson33: calls 3940
czares: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s Kh Js]
*** TURN *** [4s Kh Js] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [4s Kh Js 3d] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sprayed: shows [Ah Ts] (high card Ace)
simonson33: shows [Kc Qc] (a pair of Kings)
simonson33 collected 8705 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8705 | Rake 0
Board [4s Kh Js 3d 2d]
Seat 1: Brooklyn999 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: simonson33 showed [Kc Qc] and won (8705) with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: Daff66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: frubud folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ISBNread (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: czares (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Sprayed (big blind) showed [Ah Ts] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 8: tracybmc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: linemanbrian folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[beez]

hmm, is it necessary to make that move there? there are obviously arguments for either case, but why not just come in with a standard raise? in the 2+2 article there are 3 limpers, and the blinds are significantly larger than in your example.

[Sprayed]

hmm, is it necessary to make that move there? there are obviously arguments for either case, but why not just come in with a standard raise? in the 2+2 article there are 3 limpers, and the blinds are significantly larger than in your example.

No it's not necessary, however this was close to the bubble and everyone was playing fairly tight. At least that was my perception. If I make a standard raise of 1000 (3x+1bb for each limper) and I get a caller, I will have almost committed myself. If I miss the flop what do I do? Bet? Check? And if I check what if villain bets? That's too much to think about when chips are so valuable. Also, don’t forget I’m oop.

My opponents have medium stacks that I felt would require them to have a pretty big hand to call considering that if they did call they would be in big trouble if they lost. I saw simonson33 limp before and it didn't prove to be a monster. Limping at this stage, considering being on the bubble, is weak IMO. If you have a hand to play you have to raise it.

The whole point is to understand that you have to make some moves to gain chips when under an M of 10. Since I didn’t want to just make the money and I wanted to FT and hopefully win, I was willing to go bust to gain some more chips or double-up.